What I know of them sure paints them under a bad light. They look a lot like Kardecist Spiritism with a higher admission fee, which coming from me means that cult is far too generous a word for them.
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Scientology a CULT?
- Thread starter Nada
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Katzpur
Not your average Mormon
If you're an atheist, why not include ever other religion in the world. Why stop with Scientology, Jehovah's Witnesses and Mormons. You've still got three sides of the first die to go, and then you can start with a second one. Spread the hatred around man!
I must agree, it is just not fair to compare the LDS Church with Scientology.
YmirGF
Bodhisattva in Recovery
Don't be fooled by the glossy brochure. Scientology is perhaps the best example a demented framework that is bent to appeal to people with low self-esteem. It is almost the definitive example of what a cult truly is.
YmirGF
Bodhisattva in Recovery
I could not agree more, Kathryn. As low as my opinion is of the Jehovah's Witness sect, I'd never seriously compare it with Scientology. Mormonism, also can hardly be compared with the nihilistic psycho-babble that is Scientology.
McBell
Unbound
I suspect this is the very reason there is so much hesitation and avoidance of using the word.
Interestingly enough, there are so many different variations of what a "cult" is that every single belief system can be labeled a cult.
I prefer the common usage definition of "any belief the speaker dislikes".
It reveals just how useless the word has become outside of it being an insult.
No we don't. Are they talking about in terms of backwoods dancing naked around a bonfire with an idol to a Great Old One? Black Masses in the basements of warehouses with white masks and black robes creepily but harmlessly chanting in old languages? Any given group that dedicates itself to a single God or ideal? What?
Unveiled Artist
Veteran Member
I'm sorry you see negativity in other faiths and points of view. If they are not doing anything illegal, I personally have nothing against their morals. Reading their web site (original) makes me pause in curiosity and hesitation but never makes me call it a cult in the negative sense of the word.
Oh, I personally have a boatload of things against their morals, even if it turns out that they are 100% legal.
Law is not at all a good measure of morality.
Nor is it IMO particularly advisable or even defensible to be uncritical of beliefs. Quite on the contrary, beliefs must be scrutinized for their moral value and their practical consequences. Which is not to say that diversity of belief is a bad thing, not at all. But beliefs are supposed to have meanings and consequences, and there are definitely some that are outright dangerous.
Unveiled Artist
Veteran Member
I actually haven't talked with someone who believes in Scientology or been to a "sermon" to make a strong conclusion their teachings are immoral. I'd have to do that first. I loathe anyone (not the person but their opinion) who says they criticize (in a bad way) or belittle another faith or belief because it differs than their morals without actually being part of that faith itself. Even more so, many people are part of different faiths and may not experience what it is like to be a part of it, rather than say raised in it. So, I try to walk carefully. With religions like Catholicism and some protestant religions I can criticize (nicely) because I was a part of them. It is unbuddhist of me to criticize them and any Buddhist faith. So, basically, we disagree on the criticizing. I can tell you why I disagree with many faiths; but, I would never belittle them because of it.
Do you think that is fair? One does not have to have been part of a faith to have suffered from it. I can speak with some authority on that matter, having been raised by Spiritists. (Kardecist Spiritism is a sort-of-religion that is ultimately surprisingly similar to Scientology, particularly when it comes to its indoctrination techniques).
I don't think I can support such a stance, unfortunately. Right Action is as much accepting the duty to criticize as it is accepting the duty to protect.
Twilight Hue
Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
Scientology it seems, is a very nasty little piece of work.
Unveiled Artist
Veteran Member
That's an experience. I never had that, so I can't really say too much against it. For example, I am not part of Nichiren Buddhism SGI, but I see some "cultish" things about it because I have practiced and been around people who practiced the SGI view of the faith. It's not negative, in my opinion, they're teachings are diverted from the original teachings of the founder.
As for Scientology, you would know more about that than I given the below. I just can't criticize someone else's faith unless it is impacting someone else or that person and I have something to say to help (not belittle) them because of it.
We have biases and morals based on our experiences with things. So, I can only take your word for it. Objectively, I don't see anything wrong with it until I talk to someone who believes it (or raised in it, or so have you) or go to a Church that teaches it.
As for Scientology, you would know more about that than I given the below. I just can't criticize someone else's faith unless it is impacting someone else or that person and I have something to say to help (not belittle) them because of it.
We have biases and morals based on our experiences with things. So, I can only take your word for it. Objectively, I don't see anything wrong with it until I talk to someone who believes it (or raised in it, or so have you) or go to a Church that teaches it.
Unveiled Artist
Veteran Member
Probably. I looked up spiritualism and got the somewhat same impression. It's interesting, I was thinking of visiting the church nearby when I have transportation to do so. That would be an experience. I never had any interest in Scientology though.
I guess it comes down to a personal choice of how best to balance the risks. There is such a thing as being too silent, and there is such a thing as being too outspoken. One factor to consider is how easily one can live with the consequences of each side. Another is how willing to reconsider and apologize one is. Yet another is how grave the likely damage of each choice might be. And then there is how much trust one honestly feels to be capable of having on one's own conclusions from the available evidence, including the available testimonials and their sources.
At some point it becomes a matter of trust.
Attempting to be ethical is a risky business.
It is a sad person, that whose faith impacts no one else. Hopefully those are rare as well.
Fair enough.
Sometimes it is best to be blunt and direct. Some faiths are outright destructive. Most get too much of a free pass out of supposedly being "religions".
Unveiled Artist
Veteran Member
It is a risk, that is true. I'm a softy when it comes to that. It makes me seem uncertain about my faith and what I want to say. I see where you're coming from. I guess as long as you do so in a healthy ethical way, it shouldn't be too much of a deal to speak ill of another faith (saying objectively)
True. Would that be a bad thing, though? and how?
Kalibhakta
Jai Maha Kali Ma!
People have died. They drain money out of you and will destroy you if you cross them. It's not what they believe but what they *do*
Cult should not mean "Religion I dislike"
Cult should mean "Actively malevolent"
Very few religions have started on a bet...
Cult should not mean "Religion I dislike"
Cult should mean "Actively malevolent"
Very few religions have started on a bet...
Truth be told, I don't feel I have much of a choice. I will never have the means to forget the consequences of Spiritism. Or, for that matter, of the most unhealthy varieties of Christianity.
It is very much a bad thing. Arguably one of the most glaring failings of today's societies.
Far too many people toy with, profit or just acquire perverse satisfaction out of unethical manipulation of the feelings and hopes of people by dressing it up as a matter of belief.
Unveiled Artist
Veteran Member
Em. I see what you mean. I guess the difference is we have different ways of expressing it. The last comment, I choose to see the positive of new "religions." I haven't experienced anything negative with new religions, just that I feel uncomfortable with the flexibility the structure is (like UU) to where I wouldn't call it a religion. /shrugs/ I should get to sleep. It's 2:30am here. I think we kinda agree.
YmirGF
Bodhisattva in Recovery
You will have to forgive me, Carlita, as I am a very honest and direct speaker both here and in real life. I also choose my words very carefully, for the most part, and I have had more than a passing brush with Scientology on a few occasions. No, I've never been seriously interested in it myself, but I have had a couple of very close friends become drawn into their chicanery. I experienced what Scientology did to my friends... while I continued to see them... before they vanished off the face of the Earth, never to be heard from again.
One fellow I knew well, Ray was his name, was almost hypnotized when I last spoke to him. His answers to my questions were quite mechanical and devoid of his usual exuberance. He said he was making great progress. It was quite chilling, really.
Lastly, I did try to read the book "Dianetics" but was only able to choke down the first few chapters until, in disgust, I threw the book across the room. It sat in the corner, on the floor for some time, before I gingerly picked it up, like a piece of dog doo doo and tossed it into the trash can. I simply wouldn't have it littering my bookshelf. I have never done this with any other book. The things discussed in the book were such perversions of pop-psychology/fiction/pseudo-science/mumbo jumbo that it was difficult to take any of it too seriously. And... I could see what happened to people who DID take it seriously. It destroyed the bright young fellow I knew and I've never seen him since. So, it's not just a case of being a hater, as it were. If I saw any redeeming merit in Scientology, I would say so. I don't, so I cannot. I hope this clarifies things a bit. Obviously, your life has not been touched by Scientology.