Scientology to face criminal charges

[Smoke]

(I started to post this in current events, but it looks like something that could easily turn into a debate, so I went ahead and put it here.)

See Scientology Faces Criminal Charges (AP)
and Belgium Clamps Down on Scientology Church (Brussels Journal)

From the latter:

The Belgian authorities have indicted the Belgian chapter of the Church of Scientology, the European headquarters of the Church, as well as 12 of its leading members. According to the office of Public Prosecutor Jean-Claude Van Espen Scientology is a criminal organization which has committed several crimes including extortion, fraud, violations of the trade law, violations of the privacy law and the illegal practice of medicine.

On 30 September 1999, 120 Belgian police officers raided 25 Scientology offices and seized tons of documents, which took the public prosecutor eight years to examine.

The European headquarters of Scientology is based in the Wetstraat in Brussels, next to the headquarters of the Belgian Christian-Democrat party. The Church is active in 156 countries. It is recognized as a church in the United States, but not in Belgium which only recognizes Roman Catholicism, Protestantism, Anglicanism, the Orthodox Church, Judaism and Islam.

Scientology, along with other churches such as the Jehovah’s Witnesses, the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints [Mormons], Anthroposophy, Opus Dei and various Catholic and Protestant evangelical and Pentecostal groups, figures on an official Belgian list of “harmful sectarian organizations”

​

From the AP story:

Scientology said it would fight the criminal charges recommended by investigating prosecutor Jean-Claude Van Espen, who said that up to 12 unidentified people should face charges. ...

"They also face charges of being ... a criminal organization," Pellens said in a telephone interview.
​

 

[Booko]

...Scientology is a criminal organization which has committed several crimes including extortion, fraud, violations of the trade law, violations of the privacy law and the illegal practice of medicine.

Those are some pretty serious allegations.

It is recognized as a church in the United States, but not in Belgium which only recognizes Roman Catholicism, Protestantism, Anglicanism, the Orthodox Church, Judaism and Islam.

I thought they recognized the Baha'i Faith, but I can't say for sure. I've never heard of any difficulties in Belgium anyway, and it's something of a stopover country for many pilgrims.

Scientology, along with other churches such as the Jehovah’s Witnesses, the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints [Mormons], Anthroposophy, Opus Dei and various Catholic and Protestant evangelical and Pentecostal groups, figures on an official Belgian list of “harmful sectarian organizations”

One wonders what constitutes "harmful" not to mention "sectarian."

I'm at a loss to understand how JWs, LDS, evangelicals and pentecostals could be construed to be "sectarian."

 

[Booko]

Oh, here's an interesting page from a report to the U.S. Congress concerning Belgium that may shed some light on the relationship with other religions and sects:

Belgium

This is the most relevant part:

Section II. Status of Religious Freedom

Legal/Policy Framework

The Constitution provides for freedom of religion, and the Government generally respects this right in practice.

The Government accords "recognized" status to Roman Catholicism, Protestantism (including evangelicals and Pentecostals), Judaism, Anglicanism, Islam, and Orthodox Christianity (Greek and Russian). Representative bodies for these religions receive subsidies from government revenues. The Government also supports the freedom to participate in laic organizations. These secular humanist groups serve as a seventh recognized "religion," and their organizing body, the Central Council of Non-Religious Philosophical Communities of Belgium, receives funds and benefits similar to those of the six other recognized religions.

The Federal Government and Parliament have responsibility for recognizing faiths and paying the wages and pensions of ministers of those faiths. As a result of constitutional reforms enacted by Parliament in 2001, religious teaching, accounting by religious groups, and religious buildings have become the jurisdiction of the regional governments. Laic organizations remain under the jurisdiction of the federal authorities.

By law each recognized religion has the right to provide teachers at government expense for religious instruction in public schools. The Government also pays the salaries, retirement, and lodging costs of ministers and subsidizes the construction and renovation of religious buildings for recognized religions. The ecclesiastical administrations of recognized religions have legal rights and obligations, and the municipality in which they are located must pay any debts that they incur. Some subsidies are the responsibility of the federal government, while the regional and municipal governments pay others. According to an independent academic review in 2000, the Government at all levels spent $523 million (approximately 23 billion Belgian francs)on subsidies for recognized religions in 2000. Of that amount, 79.2 percent went to the Catholic Church, 13 percent to laic organizations, 3.5 percent to Muslims, 3.2 percent to Protestants, 0.6 percent to Jews, 0.4 percent to Orthodox Christians, and 0.1 percent to Anglicans.

The Government applies five criteria in deciding whether to grant recognition to a religious group: The religion must have a structure or hierarchy; the group must have a sufficient number of members; the religion must have existed in the country for a long period of time; it must offer a social value to the public; and it must abide by the laws of the State and respect public order. The five criteria are not listed in decrees or laws, and the Government does not formally define "sufficient," "long period of time," or "social value." A religious group seeking official recognition applies to the Ministry of Justice, which then conducts a thorough review before recommending approval or rejection. Final approval of recognized status is the sole responsibility of the Parliament; however, the Parliament generally accepts the decision of the Ministry of Justice. A group whose application is refused by the Ministry of Justice may appeal the decision to the Council of State.

The lack of recognized status does not prevent a religious group from practicing its faith freely and openly. Nonrecognized groups do not qualify for government subsidies; however, they may qualify for tax-exempt status as nonprofit organizations.

Oh, the Baha'i Faith is probably not a recognized group. I'm not sure how the "ministers" would be paid since we have none. Honestly, I don't even know if we'd take the money if it were offered. I'd have to research that.

 

[Popeyesays]

We couldn't take the money in any event because we don't accept funds from non-Baha`i's.

Also we have no clergy so no one would be eligible. The National Spiritual Assembly was formed in 1962 (Belgium was part of the NSA of the Benelux Countries-Belgium Holland, and Luxembourg. . The NSA of the benelux Countries was formed in 1957.

Ues, tiny Luxembourg has it's own NSA.

Regards,
Scott

 

[madhatter85]

My mother lives in Antwerpen Belgium, and i know for a fact the LDS church is widelly recognized as a church in belgium (my mother being LDS)

As for Scientology,it was probably just corrupt people within the organization, Unless they have proof the actual church that cause problems,

 

[MaddLlama]

I'm noticing that Scientology doesn't get a whole lot of respect outside of the US. This is one area where I'd like to see us take a cue from our European friends...

 

[Booko]

I'm noticing that Scientology doesn't get a whole lot of respect outside of the US. This is one area where I'd like to see us take a cue from our European friends...

It doesn't get a lot of respect inside the U.S., except that our gov't is extremely liberal on the subject of what is a religion. The Constitution often doesn't allow for a stricter definition. Tax codes can be a bit more restrictive, but even that doesn't come up much.

 

[MaddLlama]

That's what I'm saying. I'm not sure it really deserves the status of "religion" from the government.
It frustrates me that the government treats Scientology as a religion and not a business, and at the same time they fight to keep people who adhere to real religions from doing so in the military (where they have some modicum of control over it).

Then again, they don't have Scientology chaplains in the military, but probably because most Scientologists are conspiracy theorists and likely wouldn't be caught dead in uniform.

 

[exit_and_how]

"criminal organization" isn't just 12 people, and what the hell took 'em so long?

 

[rojse]

I think that if this was proven within the Belgium courts, this could be used as a precedent to remove any Scientology churches in other countries where they are not well liked.

 

[lilithu]

It doesn't get a lot of respect inside the U.S., except that our gov't is extremely liberal on the subject of what is a religion. The Constitution often doesn't allow for a stricter definition. Tax codes can be a bit more restrictive, but even that doesn't come up much.

Well, that and Scientology leadership blackmailed officials in the IRS.

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

I am surprised that the Belgians Fund any churches in the way they do, as well as giving tax exemptions. I do not know of other Countries doing that.

In the light of that it is not surprising Scientology set up their European headquarters there... in the expectation of getting funding no doubt.

They are not exactly welcomed with open arms by any country in Europe.

I suspect they will throw millions at this case.

 

[MaddLlama]

Well, that and Scientology leadership blackmailed officials in the IRS.

Holy Hell!

 

[Booko]

Holy Hell!

That would be putting it mildly...

 

[jkdenm]

The article I was reading (by Constant Brand, AP) said that Belgium does not consider CoS to be an official religious group (and this was true since 1997), so CoS could not be there to receive funding.

Next, the State Department made this statement (according to the article):
"We would, however, oppose any effort to stigmatize an entire group based solely upon reglious beliefs and would be concerned over infringement of any individual's rights because of religious affiliation."

Taking this to heart, everyone reading about the situation should not automatically assume that everyone in Scientology is unlawfully practicing medicine, violating privacy laws, or using illegal business contracts (the three things the article mentions that particular organization is accused of doing).

Of course, everyone in Scientology should realize that the case could cost millions - and that the funding for this seems to be coming from the payment of services which members have to pay.

My hope is that the hoopla and the expensive court costs will not impede the process of justice.

The Truth shall set us free!

 

[exit_and_how]

(this is from David McGuire's article)

Henre de Cordes is chairman of the Information and Advice Centre on Harmful Sectarian Organizations in Belgium. He says the investigation showed some of the allegedly illegal activities undertaken by individuals.

"In the police raids during the investigation of 1999, they found lots of
personal files on the followers of Scientology, which led to the charge of
infringement of privacy law."

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

(i'm wondering what kind of personal info was being kept and whether or not
the followers knew about it.)

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

and then under the comments section of the article, one woman wrote:

"Daughter chose scientology over me, her mom, 6 years ago...just another "disconne tion doesn't really exist" case. (Mike Rinder MSNBC). Thank you Belgium. It's good to know somebody takes care of their people."

 

[YmirGF]

Well this is definitely a good thing. I hope they nail them to the floorboards as perhaps then other countries would sit up and pay attention. If any of you have known a Scientologist you will recognize the harm that Scientology does to people. Religion? Hardly. (That is just for tax purposes.) The whole deal with the IRS was a horror show. Imagine spying on IRS officials and stealing IRS documents. Hair raising stuff that is certainly to be expected from adherents of a "faith" created by a low-grade sci-fi writer.

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

The article I was reading (by Constant Brand, AP) said that Belgium does not consider CoS to be an official religious group (and this was true since 1997), so CoS could not be there to receive funding.

It is there as the headquarters of the COS Europe.. It needs to be there because it is also the administrative centre of the EEC,

Next, the State Department made this statement (according to the article):
"We would, however, oppose any effort to stigmatize an entire group based solely upon reglious beliefs and would be concerned over infringement of any individual's rights because of religious affiliation."

they are being stigmatised for criminal activity not religious beliefs.

Taking this to heart, everyone reading about the situation should not automatically assume that everyone in Scientology is unlawfully practicing medicine, violating privacy laws, or using illegal business contracts (the three things the article mentions that particular organization is accused of doing).

That is so... The action is about the leadership of the COS taking part in these activities... the membership are largely dupes.

Of course, everyone in Scientology should realize that the case could cost millions - and that the funding for this seems to be coming from the payment of services which members have to pay.

The richer you are the more you contribute in some cases many millions. we are talking about a business with a massive turnover.

My hope is that the hoopla and the expensive court costs will not impede the process of justice.

They will find the Belgium Legal system more difficult to coerce than the American one... It is not politically involved in the same way. However money talks when it comes to honesty.

 

[silvermoon383]

The religion must have a structure or hierarchy; the group must have a sufficient number of members; the religion must have existed in the country for a long period of time; it must offer a social value to the public; and it must abide by the laws of the State and respect public order. The five criteria are not listed in decrees or laws, and the Government does not formally define "sufficient," "long period of time," or "social value."

My, how vague...

 

[Smoke]

Next, the State Department made this statement (according to the article): "We would, however, oppose any effort to stigmatize an entire group based solely upon reglious beliefs and would be concerned over infringement of any individual's rights because of religious affiliation."

they are being stigmatised for criminal activity not religious beliefs.

Frankly, I think if any group in the world ought to be stigmatized for religious beliefs, it's the Church of Scientology. I mean, let's face it. However, what they're being prosecuted for is their criminal activities.