Scottish Independence

[Panda]

Currently, we need strong, unified Western states to counteract the growing power of the Eastern countries (i.e. China and India).

Why do we want to counteract them? Why do we have the meddle with the rest of the world?

 

[Darkness]

Why do we want to counteract them? Why do we have the meddle with the rest of the world?

i. There are gains from trade, but there are also winners and losers. The liberal argument that the West benefits from the authoritarian Chinese government purchasing shares in western corporations is naive.

ii. The fate of the Taiwanese people depends upon it. If China gains sufficient strength and the West loses enough of its clout/power, China will invade Taiwan.

iii. Morality does not stop at a nation's boarders. The West has a moral responsibility, being the world's centre of liberal democracy, to defend freedom around the globe, even though it has failed miserably at this task. More importantly, the West has a responsibility to ensure that the narrative of liberal democracy is propagated at the U.N. and not the authoritarian narrative of China. That is, if the West falters and loses its supremacy, developing nations will look to the Chinese model, instead of the Western model for guidance.

 

[Sultan Of Swing]

i. There are gains from trade, but there are also winners and losers. The liberal argument that the West benefits from the authoritarian Chinese government purchasing shares in western corporations is naive.

ii. The fate of the Taiwanese people depends upon it. If China gains sufficient strength and the West loses enough of its clout/power, China will invade Taiwan.

iii. Morality does not stop at a nation's boarders. The West has a moral responsibility, being the world's centre of liberal democracy, to defend freedom around the globe, even though it has failed miserably at this task. More importantly, the West has a responsibility to ensure that the narrative of liberal democracy is propagated at the U.N. and not the authoritarian narrative of China. That is, if the West falters and loses its supremacy, developing nations will look to the Chinese model, instead of the Western model for guidance.

I agree. If the West feels morally obliged to help the rest of the world and try to maintain justice, they need the strength and economy to be able to challenge any other countries that try to do bad things. They need the strength to be listened to, otherwise the West will be ignored.

 

[sandandfoam]

otherwise the West will be ignored.

Imagine that.

 

[Darkness]

Imagine that.

I hate to sound ethnocentric, but the Western world is the most humanistic-free "region" on the Earth. Asian states besides Japan (and maybe Taiwan) are ruled by authoritarian politburos, dictators, or military juntas. Africa is primarily controlled by corruption, except for a few instances (e.g. South Africa) and Eastern Europe is a disaster. South America has greater potential towards democracy, but presidents act more like autocrats than democratically-elected representatives. And the Middle East is a cesspool of conservative-fundamentalist madness. I am sorry but that is the truth. Not all countries are created equal.

 

[Yerda]

We can all imagine what an ideal United Kingdom would be.

Good. We surely won't achieve anything without imagination.

But what political party is going to put these things into practice?

Why? Are you looking for a party to vote for?

What political party has the guts to try and dissolve the House of Lords?

Not dissolve, reform. The Lib Dems and Labour have both spoken of an elected second chamber for years.

What political party has the guts to try and give Cornwall an assembly, to give the Midlands a parliament, to promote equality and unity in all things?

The Cornish and the Midlanders are the most likely suspects.

You can sit there and think about how life should be, but who's going to make it happen?

Certainly nothing will ever get done if we are simply going to whine about the reluctance to change that is endemic in party politics and wondering who is going to sort things for us.

 

[sandandfoam]

And the Middle East is a cesspool of conservative-fundamentalist madness. I am sorry but that is the truth. Not all countries are created equal.

Indeed. Many were created by European colonisers and off the top of my head I can think of more than one or two despotic regimes that are armed and maintained by 'western democracies'.

Whatever about all countries being equal there is no doubt in my mind but that all people are created equal.
Inequality between people is integral to 'western' capitalism. Anyone in their right mind would ignore 'the west'.

 

[Revoltingest]

Time to revive this thread.
Why?
I found this.....
http://www.fanpop.com/clubs/the-sim...ottish-independence-simpsons-animation-on-fox

 

[DayRaven]

I don't see any reason Scotland could not have prospered as a separate state if it had seceded from the Union. There would have been short term negative impacts (as undoubtedly there will be if the UK secedes from the EU) but in the long term?

As it is, for me, the Union died in 1998 with the reforming of a Scottish parliament. We are now in the limbo of waiting for what will be, in my view, the final end of the Union. I'm not in favour of the current mess and believe that the only options are the disbandment of the Scottish parliament and the Welsh assembly (which I believe is still in Westminster's power, though they wouldn't do it) and the return to a central Westminster government or the end of the union and the creation of a separate Scottish state and, probably, an Anglo-Welsh entity of some form.

I'm a man of the mark myself, I live right on the border between the northern hills and the south. Perhaps cut London adrift and establish a new capital at York? Then the Angles of Northumbria and Mercia can stick two fingers up at the Saxon southern nancies.