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Searching for proof of God/Islam - Tell me why I'm wrong

Brickjectivity

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
Hello all,

I'm in the process of looking at different belief systems, and I've tried to summarise why I am beginning to settle on belief in God & specifically Islam.

Getting some challenge from your sharp debating minds would be immensely helpful to highlight any shortcomings in my current thinking.
1. I do not see a need for a Qur'an.
2. I see a need for people to accept the finality of death.
3. Muhammad argues for an afterlife, despite the plain and obvious condition of death. This is something you should not take someone's word for no matter how much you want to believe it.
4. Muhammad makes promises that people should make sacrifices today and serve his god Allah today in exchange for things in an afterlife. This is a bad sign.
5. Muhammad cannot raise the dead, nor can any Muslim or non-Muslim. No one raises the dead.
6. People just die whether or not there is God. We are destined for death with the plain function of living and then dying. Our death is part of what we are. We do not like it, but we still die. Each of us has lost loved ones to the grave, and there they are.
7. There are billions of dead people, and their corpses have never come back to life. Despite all requests, wishes and hopes they remain dead.
8. People lie well. Muhammad is a person, therefore he has the ability to lie well.
9. People are all potential suckers. You are a person, and therefore you are a potential sucker.
10. Liars take advantage of suckers. Suckers let ourselves be taken advantage of. This happens. Accept it. That's why you shouldn't trust a man who makes promises about an afterlife in exchange for the right to tell you what to do with your life now.
 

First Baseman

Retired athlete
And of course what you "know" about Muhammad, Jews "know" about Jesus. So its probably best not to go running off about it on threads not dedicated to this.

Well, you can show me Mohammed's tomb. But you can't show me the remains of Jesus.

So what are you talking about?
 

Saint Frankenstein

Here for the ride
Premium Member

loverofhumanity

We are all the leaves of one tree
Premium Member
It's a huge mistake to base the truth of Christ on an empty tomb because if one day they found it then Christians would all lose their Faith. 2,000 years later I know Jesus is true because He has the Holy Spirit in Him and breathed that Spirit into humanity. But I don't base my belief in Jesus on miracles because they are only a proof for those who were present and 2,000 years later aren't a real proof. His real proof is He changed hearts. Also, the interpretation of the Resurrection may be wrong. It may well have been a vision like on Mount Tabor where others were there but only the disciples saw it.
 

loverofhumanity

We are all the leaves of one tree
Premium Member
Yeah. That's because even they know he is no savior. His grave is with us to this day. The same cannot be said about the true savior, who will be blessed forever and ever, Amen.

Mohammed taught that the Bible is wrong. He taught that the Apostles are liars and that Christians are liars because they proclaim the Gospel of Jesus Christ. To follow Mohammed is to forsake Christ.

Do not hear such evil, brother, I pray thee with all my heart.

Muhammad taught that Jesus and the Bible were true but that Christians interpretation of it was incorrect. But as to Jesus and the Holy Bible, Muhammad supported both fully.

He only sought to correct the misinterpretations.
 

Saint Frankenstein

Here for the ride
Premium Member
It's a huge mistake to base the truth of Christ on an empty tomb because if one day they found it then Christians would all lose their Faith. 2,000 years later I know Jesus is true because He has the Holy Spirit in Him and breathed that Spirit into humanity. But I don't base my belief in Jesus on miracles because they are only a proof for those who were present and 2,000 years later aren't a real proof. His real proof is He changed hearts. Also, the interpretation of the Resurrection may be wrong. It may well have been a vision like on Mount Tabor where others were there but only the disciples saw it.
You do make a good point. A lot of Christians are heavily indebted to the idea that many of the stories of the Bible are literally true. That is a problem. Personally, I'm not. Even if Jesus never existed as an historical person, I'd still be a Christian. To me, religion is a lot like art or dreams. It's not really a rational thing. The heart wants what it wants.
 

First Baseman

Retired athlete
I hope you know exactly what I'm talking about.

Sure. Do you understand what I'm talking about? We have Mohammed's remains with us to this day but where are the remains of Jesus of Nazareth, sir? They were guarded closely by a team of professional Roman soldiers. So what happened to them?
 

Tumah

Veteran Member
Sure. Do you understand what I'm talking about? We have Mohammed's remains with us to this day but where are the remains of Jesus of Nazareth, sir? They were guarded closely by a team of professional Roman soldiers. So what happened to them?
No it wasn't. After the Sanhedrin stoned him and hung him, they buried him that night where they bury everyone killed by the Sanhedrin. In some nondescript plot somewhere.
 

First Baseman

Retired athlete
This is a privately owned forum and forums have rules. One of the rules here is not to proselytize and to respectful towards others. I suggest you read over the site rules: http://www.religiousforums.com/threads/rf-rules.170244/

Otherwise, I'm going to start reporting you.

Go ahead and report me. My zeal for my savior is my bond. All Christians suffer for their faith and I am no better or different from those who have been put to death for their faith in Christ.

As Peter said to the Council in Acts 4,

“Whether it is right in God’s sight to listen to you rather than to God, you must judge; 20 for we cannot keep from speaking about what we have seen and heard.”
 

First Baseman

Retired athlete
No it wasn't. After the Sanhedrin stoned him and hung him, they buried him that night where they bury everyone killed by the Sanhedrin. In some nondescript plot somewhere.

Oh, so you reject the crucifixion outright. What about what the Apostles and historians of the day wrote of Him? I find no accounts of a stoning by the Sanhedrin. Perhaps there were such accounts falsified after the fact, I would not be surprised at that.
 

loverofhumanity

We are all the leaves of one tree
Premium Member
You do make a good point. A lot of Christians are heavily indebted to the idea that many of the stories of the Bible are literally true. That is a problem. Personally, I'm not. Even if Jesus never existed as an historical person, I'd still be a Christian. To me, religion is a lot like art or dreams. It's not really a rational thing. The heart wants what it wants.


Thank you!

Christ taught unconditional love for all the peoples of the world, Saint or sinner, believer or non believer, enemy or friend. That was His Message. Anything else is efforts to try and claim some form of superiority that Jesus never taught.
 

Saint Frankenstein

Here for the ride
Premium Member
Go ahead and report me. My zeal for my savior is my bond. All Christians suffer for their faith and I am no better or different from those who have been put to death for their faith in Christ.

As Peter said to the Council in Acts 4,

“Whether it is right in God’s sight to listen to you rather than to God, you must judge; 20 for we cannot keep from speaking about what we have seen and heard.”
Spare me the martyr act. This is a message board, and I'm a Christian, myself. This persecution complex is an insult and a blasphemy to actual martyrs who suffer and die for their beliefs. So don't play that game with me. You're coming off as extremely arrogant.
 

Tumah

Veteran Member
Oh, so you reject the crucifixion outright. What about what the Apostles and historians of the day wrote of Him? I find no accounts of a stoning by the Sanhedrin. Perhaps there were such accounts falsified after the fact, I would not be surprised at that.
There are non-Christian historians with first hand accounts of his burial and subsequent missing body?

Look, I'm just bringing this up for your own good.
 

First Baseman

Retired athlete
Spare me the martyr act. This is a message board, and I'm a Christian, myself. This persecution complex is an insult and a blasphemy to actual martyrs who suffer and die for their beliefs. So don't play that game with me. You're coming off as extremely arrogant.

I simply tell the truth that you already know. I have blasphemed no one.
 
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