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Second coming

Balthazzar

N. Germanic Descent
I think vision of Jesus is not the same as claiming Jesus have returned.

In John Jesus speaks of the spirit of truth coming as a comforter and guide to guide into all truth. In 1 John it speaks of that coming as beingbin the flesh, much like in John - the spirit of error or the spirit of truth. It's a spiritual return inside ourselves that is to come, iand is here, and has been, just as the spirit of error was and is and will continue to be present until we choose light/truth over darkness/deceit. It's about living in truth instead of lies.

John 14: 1 - 20

1 John 4: 1 - 6
 
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blü 2

Veteran Member
Premium Member
When someone says Jesus will return what does that mean?
Bear in mind that the Jesus of Mark, the Jesus of Matthew and the Jesus of Luke (but not the Jesus of Paul or the Jesus of John) promised that the Son of Man would come and establish the Kingdom of God on earth within the lifetime of some of his hearers.

Whether the Son of Man is Jesus is doubtful but arguable.

Regardless, I suggest you apply reasoned skepticism in your approach to anything Jesus promises.
 

Balthazzar

N. Germanic Descent
Bear in mind that the Jesus of Mark, the Jesus of Matthew and the Jesus of Luke (but not the Jesus of Paul or the Jesus of John) promised that the Son of Man would come and establish the Kingdom of God on earth within the lifetime of some of his hearers.

Whether the Son of Man is Jesus is doubtful but arguable.

Regardless, I suggest you apply reasoned skepticism in your approach to anything Jesus promises.

I agree with your last statement, but the first ...not so much. You'll need to explain the assertion.
 

loverofhumanity

We are all the leaves of one tree
Premium Member
When someone says Jesus will return what does that mean?

I believe it means nothing at all and that Christians say that as an excuse for not being able to fix the world’s problems.

But they are the very likely the last ones who would ever accept Christ on His return because they worship their priests and clergy so much. And whatever they say Christians follow. So if Christ were to return if He didn’t bow down to the clergy, Christians would probable denounce Him as a fake and imposter and from Satan. It is my conviction that the clergy are the gods and owners of Christian’s hearts not Christ and that it’s almost impossible to associate a Christian with open mindedness because of intense indoctrination which to me is brainwashing or just blindly accepting whatever the priest says. Priests are human beings but they have been elevated to a station of divinity by followers.

There is no sincere belief in the second coming of Christ but in clergy instead, and He would never be welcome as long as priests rule the roost.
 
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blü 2

Veteran Member
Premium Member
I agree with your last statement, but the first ...not so much. You'll need to explain the assertion.
The 'Son of Man' makes his first appearance in Daniel 7:13-14, as 'a son of man' ie human not angelic, an earthly being whom God empowers, such that his rule will be everlasting. In 1 Enoch, written one or two centuries BCE, he moves from a son of man to the Son of Man, with a similar role. He's naturally resonant with the Apocalyptic mood in the Jewish world in NT times , because he'll overthrow Israel's conquerors and restore Jewish political autonomy ─ as a good messiah should. Just as Jesus didn't fit the character of a Jewish messiah (being neither a civil, military or religious leader of the Jews), nor does he fit the character of the Son of Man ─ but of course his adherents were happy to give him both titles. The question is whether he thought of himself as the Son of Man, and I don't see how a Jesus who advocates peace with Rome and the payment of Roman taxes and civil order and obedience fits that role. Of course, he's waiting for the Apocalypse, when the dirty work will be done for him by the Son of Man or alternatively by God.

The first gospel written is Mark, where (Mark 3:38 ) Jesus speaks of the Son of Man as someone other than himself. Check out Matthew 24:27. Notice Matthew 24:34-40, where the king (the Son of Man) never mentions belief in him/Jesus as relevant to salvation, or Luke 21:34 which again refers to the Son of Man as distinct from Jesus.

I find such things more persuasive than the occasions when Jesus is equated with the Son of Man ─ I think that's a later add-on by Jesus' followers.
 

Balthazzar

N. Germanic Descent
The 'Son of Man' makes his first appearance in Daniel 7:13-14, as 'a son of man' ie human not angelic, an earthly being whom God empowers, such that his rule will be everlasting. In 1 Enoch, written one or two centuries BCE, he moves from a son of man to the Son of Man, with a similar role. He's naturally resonant with the Apocalyptic mood in the Jewish world in NT times , because he'll overthrow Israel's conquerors and restore Jewish political autonomy ─ as a good messiah should. Just as Jesus didn't fit the character of a Jewish messiah (being neither a civil, military or religious leader of the Jews), nor does he fit the character of the Son of Man ─ but of course his adherents were happy to give him both titles. The question is whether he thought of himself as the Son of Man, and I don't see how a Jesus who advocates peace with Rome and the payment of Roman taxes and civil order and obedience fits that role. Of course, he's waiting for the Apocalypse, when the dirty work will be done for him by the Son of Man or alternatively by God.

The first gospel written is Mark, where (Mark 3:38 ) Jesus speaks of the Son of Man as someone other than himself. Check out Matthew 24:27. Notice Matthew 24:34-40, where the king (the Son of Man) never mentions belief in him/Jesus as relevant to salvation, or Luke 21:34 which again refers to the Son of Man as distinct from Jesus.

I find such things more persuasive than the occasions when Jesus is equated with the Son of Man ─ I think that's a later add-on by Jesus' followers.

I can't argue most of your post. Son of man/human and unsure the gender relevance of it, aside from seeing it being within the power and duty of the human race is where I fall in. I never read anything that suggested or even vaguely implied thar it would be in thier lifetimes, which is where I drew my contention. Otherwise, I'm mostly in agreement.
 
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blü 2

Veteran Member
Premium Member
I can't argue most of your post. Son of man/human and unsure the gender relevance of it, aside from seeing it being within the power and duty of the human race is where I fall in. I never read anything that suggested or even vaguely implied thar it would be in thier lifetimes, which is where I drew my contention. Otherwise, I'm mostly in agreement.
The establishment of the Kingdom by the Son of Man is promised by the three synoptic Jesuses, but not by Paul's or John's ─

Mark 9:1 And he said to them, “Truly, I say to you, there are some standing here who will not taste death before they see that the kingdom of God has come with power.”

Mark 13:28 “From the fig tree learn its lesson: as soon as its branch becomes tender and puts forth its leaves, you know that summer is near. 29 So also, when you see these things taking place, you know that he is near, at the very gates. 30 Truly, I say to you, this generation will not pass away before all these things take place.

Matthew 10:23 When you are persecuted in one place, flee to another. Truly I tell you, you will not finish going through the towns of Israel before the Son of Man comes.

Matthew 16:28 Truly, I say to you, there are some standing here who will not taste death before they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.”

Matthew 24:32 “From the fig tree learn its lesson: as soon as its branch becomes tender and puts forth its leaves, you know that summer is near. 33 So also, when you see all these things, you know that he is near, at the very gates. 34 Truly, I say to you, this generation will not pass away till all these things take place.

Luke 9:27 But I tell you truly, there are some standing here who will not taste death before they see the kingdom of God.”​
 

DKH

Member
When someone says Jesus will return what does that mean?
It means the end of man's and certain principalities rule over the planet earth. Then, (after about a thousand years) there will come a new heaven and new earth. There will be everlasting peace and no more death, mourning or pain! The Creator will wipe away all the tears of mankind and make everything joyful.
 
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