Secularists--Would You Eliminate All Religion, If You Could?

[Starfish]

I understand why religious people would like to see all people be religious, and I get the feeling here that it's the other way around as well. Secularists would like to see us all be secularist. Is that true, and why?

 

[Smoke]

I would like us all to be secularists in the sense that we all accept a secular government and religious people quit trying to write their religious beliefs into law.

But I wouldn't eliminate all religions even if I could. What would be the point? All the religious people would just latch onto phrenology or something and still be just as dogmatic and divisive as ever.

I think dogmatic religion will eventually die a natural death, though I won't live to see it -- and the other religions don't bother me.

 

[Starfish]

I would like us all to be secularists in the sense that we all accept a secular government and religious people quit trying to write their religious beliefs into law.

But I wouldn't eliminate all religions even if I could. What would be the point? All the religious people would just latch onto phrenology or something and still be just as dogmatic and divisive as ever.

I think dogmatic religion will eventually die a natural death, though I won't live to see it -- and the other religions don't bother me.

Going by the definition in the dictionary, aren't all religions dogmatic?

 

[Smoke]

Going by the definition in the dictionary, aren't all religions dogmatic?

I'm using dogma in the sense of doctrines that must be believed by the adherents of a religion.

 

[robtex]

I would like us all to be secularists in the sense that we all accept a secular government and religious people quit trying to write their religious beliefs into law.

But I wouldn't eliminate all religions even if I could. .

I am on the same page as Bill on this one. I would also add I don't like religion being interjecting into science and history classes in public schools and colleges either.

 

[Jistyr]

I would eliminate any harmful forms of religion in an instant, but not all of it.

 

[Magic Man]

I would eliminate any harmful forms of religion in an instant, but not all of it.

How would you differentiate?

I agree with Midnight. I think that dogmatic religions will eventually die, and those are the only ones I'd like to get rid of anyway.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

I understand why religious people would like to see all people be religious, and I get the feeling here that it's the other way around as well. Secularists would like to see us all be secularist. Is that true, and why?

Secularism isn't the elimination of religious belief; it's the elimination of pushing religion on others.

 

[Starfish]

I'm using dogma in the sense of doctrines that must be believed by the adherents of a religion.

What would be an example of a non-dogmatic religion?

 

[robtex]

What would be an example of a non-dogmatic religion?

Buddhism, taoism, many forms or paganism, wicca, some hinduism, sufism many of the native american religions, Levay satanism.

 

[Starfish]

Secularism isn't the elimination of religious belief; it's the elimination of pushing religion on others.

How are religions pushed on others? Is it the effort to outlaw abortion, or prevent same-sex marriage? Are there other examples?

 

[Smoke]

What would be an example of a non-dogmatic religion?

Buddhism, taoism, many forms or paganism, wicca, some hinduism, sufism many of the native american religions, Levay satanism.

Also Unitarian-Universalism, liberal Quakerism, some forms of Judaism, post-modern Christianity (like the God is Dead movement), and others.

 

[Smoke]

How are religions pushed on others? Is it the effort to outlaw abortion, or prevent same-sex marriage? Are there other examples?

There are countless other examples, though those may be the most odious.

Attempting to restore prayer to the public schools, pushing Creationism in the public schools (or, for that matter, any state-certified school), the insane hysteria every year over the so-called "War on Christmas"; in short, any of the countless attempts to impose religion on the general public.

 

[Starfish]

There are countless other examples, though those may be the most odious.

Attempting to restore prayer to the public schools, pushing Creationism in the public schools (or, for that matter, any state-certified school), the insane hysteria every year over the so-called "War on Christmas"; in short, any of the countless attempts to impose religion on the general public.

If secularism was a religion, couldn't you say they were imposing their views on others as well--not allowing prayer in school, banning Creationism, or banning any form of religion in the public place?

 

[Storm]

I understand why religious people would like to see all people be religious, and I get the feeling here that it's the other way around as well. Secularists would like to see us all be secularist. Is that true, and why?

1) Secularism is not the same as a lack of religion. It's a lack of civic religion.

2) Yes, I would like to see a secular world. Why? Because religion and government can only corrupt one another. Neither is enriched. Also, it's simply impossible for civic religion to represent all faiths.

 

[Starfish]

1) Secularism is not the same as a lack of religion. It's a lack of civic religion.

2) Yes, I would like to see a secular world. Why? Because religion and government can only corrupt one another. Neither is enriched. Also, it's simply impossible for civic religion to represent all faiths.

Do you have examples of civic religion? Or do you mean the same as in post 13?

 

[robtex]

If secularism was a religion, couldn't you say they were imposing their views on others as well--not allowing prayer in school, banning Creationism, or banning any form of religion in the public place?

Nobody is saying bannering it or censoring it. It is more asking you do it when you are at church or among your theist friends. By contrast don't impose it into our judicial system, public schools and personal lives. People who are pro-secular government (self included) don't mind you having your beliefs. We mind you imposing on those of us who couldn't care less about your God or your religion by mandating it in schools, courts, laws and public policies.

In short if you want to teach creationism do it at Bible study. If you want to have a gay bashing prayer session, do it at church. If you want to wage war on the Muslims because they follow the wrong God, pray for it at church. But don't pursue those ends through government thus mandating on those of us who couldn't care less about Jesus or his beliefs.

Also secularism isn't a religion. Many theists are secularists with a high concentration of them being Jews and UU's. Methodists overall, are an example of a Christian faith that is not pro-dominionism (opposite of secular government)

 

[Storm]

Do you have examples of civic religion? Or do you mean the same as in post 13?

Well, any display of religion in government context. The examples in post 13, but also putting references to God on our money, in the pledge, opening the Senate with a prayer, that sort of thing.

Also, everything Robtex just said in post 17.

 

[Melancholy]

In short if you want to teach creationism do it at Bible study. If you want to have a gay bashing prayer session, do it at church. If you want to wage war on the Muslims because they follow the wrong God, pray for it at church. But don't pursue those ends through government thus mandating on those of us who couldn't care less about Jesus or his beliefs.

)

I have to agree with you.

 

[Mike182]

I am on the same page as Bill on this one. I would also add I don't like religion being interjecting into science and history classes in public schools and colleges either.

i agree, but i would still want religious education to be taught in schools.