Seeing That Women Can Go Topless Now Do You Suppose A Lot More Rapes Will Happen?

[Poeticus]

Rapes on the street are all about opprotunity.

Namaste,

Yes, "rapes on the street"....

M.V.

 

[Monk Of Reason]

Namaste,

Yes, "rapes on the street"....

M.V.

Rapes that aren't domestic related. I don't mean litterally on the asphalt.

My point is this. For rapes to go up one or more of two things has to happen.

1) Men who would not normally be rapists suddenly become rapists.

2) Men who are already rapists will rape more.


If seeing some breasts is all it takes to convert someone to being a rapists then the explosion of the porn industry and internet porn should have caused a skyrocketing affect on rapes. It didn't happen. So this one is out.

What evidence do we have that rapists will rape more if they are sexually aroused in public? The same analogy of the porn industry and internet porn works here as well. They don't get horny and go out and rape someone for a sexual release. There is a sadistic dominance that they work for when they rape. Rape is the ultimate form of dominance over someone.


Also there are societies where its normal for women to go topless. If it became the norm for women to be topless then being topless looses all its appeal. This destroys the last stand of this argument that topless women will increase rape rates.

 

[Monk Of Reason]

Or, to put it in another light, the "attractiveness" of a stranger-rape victim is defined by his or her perceived vulnerability, in the mind of a rapist. Just like the attractiveness of a mugging victim or a bullying victim. Not by some random assortment of arbitrary physical characteristics by which our society defines physical beauty. I don't believe young people are targeted by sexual offenders because they are "beautiful", but because they are "vulnerable". Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, and the sex offender perceives vulnerability as beauty.

Exactly. They don't rape supermodles. They rape the decent enough looking girl who is walking home from her 3am shift. Well these are opprotunistic rapes. The majority of rapes are uncles, father in laws, creepy grandfather, friend of the family ect. These are the most common types of rape and would be more or less immune to the topless variable in the equation.

 

[Poeticus]

Namaste,

Rapes that aren't domestic related. I don't mean litterally on the asphalt.

I know. I was just reiterating the stance that I was talking about war rape.

If seeing some breasts is all it takes to convert someone to being a rapists then the explosion of the porn industry and internet porn should have caused a skyrocketing affect on rapes. It didn't happen. So this one is out.

Agree...

What evidence do we have that rapists will rape more if they are sexually aroused in public? The same analogy of the porn industry and internet porn works here as well. They don't get horny and go out and rape someone for a sexual release. There is a sadistic dominance that they work for when they rape. Rape is the ultimate form of dominance over someone.

I wouldn't say it is the "ultimate" form of dominance but I agree that rape involves dominance, entitlement, centricity, etc. etc......

It isn't about looks 100% (as I have been saying this whole time cough cough alceste cough cough). But, looks come into play (for example in war rape) when soldiers handpick which woman (or men cough cough alceste cough cough) to rape. The ability to choose shows that the perpetrators are capable of engaging in the perversions that they like and that they have defeated their enemies and now it is time to "gift" them the ultimate insult...

Also there are societies where its normal for women to go topless. If it became the norm for women to be topless then being topless looses all its appeal. This destroys the last stand of this argument that topless women will increase rape rates.

I utilized the example of topless women in Bali...therefore...

Agree...

M.V.

ps - If it isn't simply about clothes and all that other jazz, can someone please explain to me why many Muslims say that the Burqa or even the Niqab or the Hijab will prevent a male from raping the female since he won't be able to "see" the physical attributes of a female and that is why Muslim women should wear those garments? Doesn't such a logic entail rape myth acceptance?

 

[Monk Of Reason]

ps - If it isn't simply about clothes and all that other jazz, can someone please explain to me why many Muslims say that the Burqa or even the Niqab or the Hijab will prevent a male from raping the female since he won't be able to "see" the physical attributes of a female and that is why Muslim women should wear those garments? Doesn't such a logic entail rape myth acceptance?

It doesn't. Women are more abused in those countries than America where our women are "dressed as whores". It is more to do with how the society respects women. I mean I see women that aren't in burqas all the time and I have yet to rape anyone. However there are tens of thousands of these men who have gang raped women who were covered from head to toe. Its bullcrap to suggest that clothes have anything to do with rape. It is a problem with the society and with the people. Not the women. Not the clothes. It is a vain and shallow excuse for people being ****** human beings.

 

[Poeticus]

It doesn't. Women are more abused in those countries than America where our women are "dressed as whores". It is more to do with how the society respects women. I mean I see women that aren't in burqas all the time and I have yet to rape anyone. However there are tens of thousands of these men who have gang raped women who were covered from head to toe. Its bullcrap to suggest that clothes have anything to do with rape. It is a problem with the society and with the people. Not the women. Not the clothes. It is a vain and shallow excuse for people being ****** human beings.

Namaste,

But, some of them believe that a female that isn't wearing such garments is "asking" for it...

Doesn't this approach by them entail rape myth acceptance?

Also, yes...the culture is very negative - same applies to my motherland, India...unfortunately. Women were so free in Ancient India...but after the Islamic invasions followed by the British, the culture was altered for the worse...



M.V.

 

[Monk Of Reason]

Namaste,

But, some of them believe that a female that isn't wearing such garments is "asking" for it...

Doesn't this approach by them entail rape myth acceptance?

No. It is a vain, patheitc, shallow excuse that scum wrapped in flesh like to say in order to avoid guilt of the terrible act they commited.

1
Also, yes...the culture is very negative - same applies to my motherland, India...unfortunately. Women were so free in Ancient India...but after the Islamic invasions followed by the British, the culture was altered for the worse...



M.V.

It happens in certain cultures. I am sorry for yours. If its any consolation no culture is without its blemishes.

 

[Alceste]

Namaste,

But, some of them believe that a female that isn't wearing such garments is "asking" for it...

Doesn't this approach by them entail rape myth acceptance?

Also, yes...the culture is very negative - same applies to my motherland, India...unfortunately. Women were so free in Ancient India...but after the Islamic invasions followed by the British, the culture was altered for the worse...



M.V.

Yes, thinking that covering people up can protect them from rape is rape myth acceptance. Yes, it does increase the probability that you will rape somebody and reduce your odds of psychologically recovering from being raped. BUT, it doesn't necessarily mean that you will be raping somebody who is not covered up, or that you might be raped because you are not covered up. It only means you tend to blame the victim, so you'll rape whoever is handy and tell yourself they were asking for it, or assume you were somehow asking for it if you are sexually assaulted.

 

[MysticSang'ha]

Namaste,



This is what I mean:

The best looking women are affected the most during war rape. The perpetrators send out a clear message to the men of the opposing group: "look at what we have done; we have raped your most beautiful women and there was nothing you could do about it; all of you men are weak and you couldn't even protect your own women, let alone the best women of your species!"....stuff like that....that is what I am trying to say....

Gotcha. To expand on that, even the most treasured bird by a group remains in a gilded cage. "Best" women still connotes that a woman is not her own person and is not human like the males in her society. In essence, whether or not she belongs to the King or to the pauper, she is still "his."

I don't think they are unimportant; I just believe that male on male rape is more complex. In fact, I am very ignorant about male on male rape, yet I acknowledge that it happens with a vicious tenacity. I do not deny its occurrence and maybe the posters I was replying to believed that I was when that was not the case.

No problem. I admit that I have been one who was ignorant for decades about male victims of rape. All my peer groups are women that I have worked with through the years when it has come to rape survivors. It took a few questions here and a few questions there recently before I began looking into the topic and raising some awareness toward the subject. I think it deserves it. I'm still finding out more as time passes.

Furthermore, women in Bali walk around without torso-wear in the villages. Yet, they aren't raped for being half naked. They are raped for many reasons but being half naked isn't the sole cause. And, yes, a male prisoner is also subjected to rape under horrible captors. But, I don't think they are "asking" for rape...them "asking" for rape would be rape myth acceptance, right?

M.V.

Yes, I think so. Attitudes that reflect giving the aggressor a pass and blames the victim for something-or-other, that sympathizes and understands the aggressor and ignores the experience of the victim. I see that as rape myth acceptance.

 

[MysticSang'ha]

Rapes that aren't domestic related. I don't mean litterally on the asphalt.

My point is this. For rapes to go up one or more of two things has to happen.

1) Men who would not normally be rapists suddenly become rapists.

2) Men who are already rapists will rape more.


If seeing some breasts is all it takes to convert someone to being a rapists then the explosion of the porn industry and internet porn should have caused a skyrocketing affect on rapes. It didn't happen. So this one is out.

We should also continue to see spikes in each of the tech trends of pornographic mags and film if we want to argue availability. Film, then VHS, then internet, now mobile app. Hence, I agree with your reasoning.

What evidence do we have that rapists will rape more if they are sexually aroused in public? The same analogy of the porn industry and internet porn works here as well. They don't get horny and go out and rape someone for a sexual release. There is a sadistic dominance that they work for when they rape. Rape is the ultimate form of dominance over someone.


Also there are societies where its normal for women to go topless. If it became the norm for women to be topless then being topless looses all its appeal. This destroys the last stand of this argument that topless women will increase rape rates.

You're spelling out what I have been trying to say for a while. Rape doesn't happen if somebody "gets too horny." It occurs by those who have no concern for another persons sexual boundaries. I have a difficult time empathizing at all with the position of suggesting that sexual urges have anything to do with rape when we continue to see trends and studies suggesting otherwise.

I've brought this up before, but I'd love to see any rape-because-he-got-too-horny sympathizers willing to say that in front of a room full of rape survivors.

 

[Wherenextcolumbus]

Namaste,

OHHH!H!!DFdjfjlksdflkjdkjdskljds!!!!!!!!!!

SHHHhhhhhhhHHH!!!!!!

Before I say anything on the matter, please be aware that my following response may be subjected to heated debate and rapid lambasting....

The Serbs handpicked Muslim Bosniaks and Catholic Hrvatskis...taking the prettiest ones to "brothels" were they were systematically raped. The prettier ones were sold to the generals at very high prices.

Here is the catch though: the Serbs raped mostly the best looking ones to say to the Muslim Bosniaks the following:

"Hey look! We are raping your most beautiful women and there is nothing you can do about it! They will bear us Christian (Orthodox) babies!"
- - - - - -
A similar approach happened in Bangladesh by Muslim Pakistanis against Hindu Bengalis and even, ironically, Muslim Bengalis. The point was to rape the prettiest, destroy the pride of the raped ones, and shame the men who were the fathers, brothers, and husbands of the raped ones.

The same thing also happened with the Uzbeks in Kyrgyzstan!

It has power/dominance, looks, entitlement, etc. etc. etc. all in one. It's a big fusion on why raping sprees occur. The better looking ones are usually raped to dishonor the men and their pride (the conquered men, obv.)...

M.V.

But isn't that more to do with them measuring the status of the enemies women by their looks? Assuming that they raped the most "attractive ones" (which by how you are describing it, there was a lot of attractive ones so almost every women couldn't be sure if she was safe)
in order to bring more shame to the enemy.
So it was less about them picking the attractive ones for their own satisfaction and more about shaming and breaking the pride of the enemy by having reproductive control over their most attractive women.

 

[Wherenextcolumbus]

That is not true.Not of all people who rape.At all.A rapist can be a perfect citizen but feel ENTITLED to a woman and RAPE her..A rapist can be an "otherwise" normal guy ..upstanding citizen.

This is true. I know this of a JW husband who raped his wife, he's not violent in general only to his wife.

 

[Wherenextcolumbus]

I don't think its helpful to pass on rape "myths".Otherwise NON violent ,responsible "normal" acting men DO rape women..(oh sorry and otherwise non violent responsible "normal" women DO rape men)..On dates..husbands! (oh and wives rape their husband too)..Young boys making good grades from good families (non criminals) gang rape girls they don't ROB banks(Oh and young girls from good families making good grades (non criminals) gang rape boys!) ...

Rapist is a crime in its own.You do not have to be a "bad citizen" otherwise or and "otherwise" criminal.

And then there are people who are violent in every other way but would not rape anyone.
There are men who are violent in every other way but would refuse to even hit a woman.

 

[Wherenextcolumbus]

I think topless women may increase sexual assaults (not rape, boob grabbing) in a culture that fetishises breasts.
I have been sexually assaulted twice by two different men who tried to slowly feel the smoothness of my tights on public transport and one of them, just straight up put his hand on my thigh.
I think in both instances the tights had something to do with it. Women's clothing is fetishised everywhere in adverts and pornography.
I'm not saying it's my fault for wearing tights, I'm saying it's societies fault for fetishising every aspect of my body and my clothing for male entertainment, and the perpetrators fault for forcing their fantasies on me.

 

[Wherenextcolumbus]

@titanic, I asked you a question, do you think rapists rape because they just really want sex?

 

[Poeticus]

So it was less about them picking the attractive ones for their own satisfaction and more about shaming and breaking the pride of the enemy by having reproductive control over their most attractive women.

Namaste,

Exactly.

M.V.

 

[Galen.Iksnudnard]

Unfortunately, there will probably be sickos that will use this as an excuse to rape women by saying "she was asking for it" by being provocative.

While I do welcome laws that liberate women (men can go topless if they choose, so I believe women should be allowed to, if they choose as well), there are always people trying to take advantage of things and who are going to blame women for their own actions.

 

[Poeticus]

It only means you tend to blame the victim, so you'll rape whoever is handy and tell yourself they were asking for it, or assume you were somehow asking for it if you are sexually assaulted.

Namaste,

My point exactly...

M.V.

 

[Poeticus]

Namaste,

Gotcha. To expand on that, even the most treasured bird by a group remains in a gilded cage. "Best" women still connotes that a woman is not her own person and is not human like the males in her society. In essence, whether or not she belongs to the King or to the pauper, she is still "his."

Thus, I say down with patriarchy and bring about the matriarchy! Muahaha!

No problem. I admit that I have been one who was ignorant for decades about male victims of rape. All my peer groups are women that I have worked with through the years when it has come to rape survivors. It took a few questions here and a few questions there recently before I began looking into the topic and raising some awareness toward the subject. I think it deserves it. I'm still finding out more as time passes.

Yes, so am I. It came as a shocker to me that in the Congo, men are raped with the same tenacity that the women were To be honest, rapists need to be shipped off to Titan (a moon of Saturn)....

Yes, I think so. Attitudes that reflect giving the aggressor a pass and blames the victim for something-or-other, that sympathizes and understands the aggressor and ignores the experience of the victim. I see that as rape myth acceptance.

Agree.

M.V.

 

[Wherenextcolumbus]

Maybe by immigrants from the third world, they might.

Thanks for exposing your racism.
It means others will know they can't have a serious conversation with you.