Seeing That Women Can Go Topless Now Do You Suppose A Lot More Rapes Will Happen?

[DallasApple]

"rape fantasy".

Dangerous line of thinking.

I would say similar to death fantasy.

The PROBLEM with that is if a hord of "young men" think that's "what she wants" I mean really Mystic.Girls are getting gang raped.Its on the uprise.

 

[MysticSang'ha]

Namaste,

But, what about instances where the men raped females not purely because the females were pretty? But, because they choose the pretty females in order to hurt the pride of the males of those females' ethnicity?

M.V.

I think this only supports my argument. If this is a motivation, the females were dehumanized in the first place by being considered a form of property as well as their purity being a source of honor/shame.

How do you think your example refutes my argument?

 

[DallasApple]

1) A young male is so horny, that he can't control his actions, whether he is pursuing a young attractive female that he thinks is sending him all the signals he needs, or he is mid-coitus and can't stop.

That is a BS excuse."cant stop"? ARGHHH!!!

Then what would a young girl do ?NOT leave home because a young male 'cant " stop???????????????????????????????????

 

[Poeticus]

I think this only supports my argument. If this is a motivation, the females were dehumanized in the first place by being considered a form of property as well as their purity being a source of honor/shame.

How do you think your example refutes my argument?

Namaste,

Oh no! You misunderstand me. I am not trying to argue with you.

I am saying that raping females in order to hurt the sentiments and the morale of the men of those females' groups isn't a rape myth thing...it happens. War rape is far from rape myth, is it not? I have been arguing about war rape or not arguing but speaking about since the beginning but the posters think I am talking about rape myths, etc....

M.V.

 

[DallasApple]

If this is a motivation, the females were dehumanized in the first place by being considered a form of property as well as their purity being a source of honor/shame.

AGREED...

Its "entitlement"! MEN feel ENTITLED to WOMEN..we are there (here on earth) for THEM!

 

[Sunstone]

Namaste,

Oh no! You misunderstand me. I am not trying to argue with you.

I am saying that raping females in order to hurt the sentiments and the morale of the men of those females' groups isn't a rape myth thing...it happens. War rape is far from rape myth, is it not? I have been arguing about war rape or not arguing but speaking about since the beginning but the posters think I am talking about rape myths, etc....

M.V.

What does the phrase, "rape myth", mean to you?

 

[MysticSang'ha]

Dangerous line of thinking.

I would say similar to death fantasy.

The PROBLEM with that is if a hord of "young men" think that's "what she wants" I mean really Mystic.Girls are getting gang raped.Its on the uprise.

Oh, it's dangerous. I submit that it's dangerous to confuse the fantasy with reality, and truly consider the fantasy to be any sort of basis for investigation, education, and law enforcement. The studies I have looked at over the years as well as discussing with other peer groups of survivors have shaped my opinion on how culture maintains its attitudes of "in-groups" and "out-groups", of masculinity and femininity and gender roles, and of the importance of informed consent.

So, I agree that it's dangerous, because people actually believe the fantasy has merit in reality.

 

[DallasApple]

[QUOTE OTOH, people who rape their partners are not sitting in prison to be studied - they are nearly impossible to convict.][/QUOTE]

they are the majority.

 

[DallasApple]

Oh, it's dangerous. I submit that it's dangerous to confuse the fantasy with reality, and truly consider the fantasy to be any sort of basis for investigation, education, and law enforcement. The studies I have looked at over the years as well as discussing with other peer groups of survivors have shaped my opinion on how culture maintains its attitudes of "in-groups" and "out-groups", of masculinity and femininity and gender roles, and of the importance of informed consent.

So, I agree that it's dangerous, because people actually believe the fantasy has merit in reality.

Right..rape "romantisized'

 

[Poeticus]

What does the phrase, "rape myth", mean to you?

Namaste,

That the women are responsible for being raped. That the victim is the perpetrator. Isn't that what rape myth acceptance is? Accepting false notions that the women asked to be raped?

M.V.

ps - I wasn't able to find proof or events of men being raped during the POI in 1947...

 

[DallasApple]

Anyway back to the OP..It's OUR COMMUNITY that is ALREADY SO SCREWED UP ..that I believe if tomorrow every women could and DID go topless???The rape would rise.And sorry A&E I do not think the rise would be equally male victims to females...

And that is SAD! You know we should all be raping each other equally.

 

[MysticSang'ha]

Namaste,

Oh no! You misunderstand me. I am not trying to argue with you.

I am saying that raping females in order to hurt the sentiments and the morale of the men of those females' groups isn't a rape myth thing...it happens. War rape is far from rape myth, is it not? I have been arguing about war rape or not arguing but speaking about since the beginning but the posters think I am talking about rape myths, etc....

M.V.

I agree that females are raped at astonishing rates during war. Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems you are suggesting that a woman's victimization is considered a distinguishing factor if she is considered attractive according to the local cultural attitudes of beauty.

What I remain consistent with is the marked dehumanization of rape victims regardless of the environmental factors.

I'm curious about something, though. I am having difficulty understanding why you believe male victims are unimportant in the discussion. I believe it's critical to the discussion because it offers a clear example of why rape is not a sexual act when a heterosexual male or lesbian female can rape a male regardless of the situation. A woman who shows her breasts who only wants to feel the air against her skin is asking for rape as much as a male prisoner of war who only wants to get home to see his family.

 

[MysticSang'ha]

Right..rape "romantisized'

Good way to put it.

 

[Alceste]

You missed the last time RF saw the go-around with this topic. It was IMO depressing and difficult.

There is a fundamental distinction between getting really horny and rape. One can't get too horny to control themselves, as this is the definition of a "rape fantasy". Fantasy is popular, but it isn't the reality of the situation. To rape someone takes a leap into a territory where another human being is victimized by dehumanizing them and forcing them into non-consensual penetration and/or ejaculation. It is an act of violence and power, not sex or titillation.

What is sad is when people want to make a few exceptions here and there by wanting to include moments where:

1) A young male is so horny, that he can't control his actions, whether he is pursuing a young attractive female that he thinks is sending him all the signals he needs, or he is mid-coitus and can't stop.
2) An attractive female is dressing, acting, saying, behaving, looking, etc. in a way that shows that she really wants it. Doesn't matter if she says "yes" or "no". She's showing her naked breasts. Her word means nothing.
3) She was unclear in communicating her boundaries. She should have fought more, screamed more, hit more, kicked more, yelled for help more or longer, but instead he got the wrong message.
4) She isn't telling the truth, and only wants to get his money or get even.

These are symptoms of what Alceste posted about earlier: rape myth acceptances. The cultural acceptance of these myths remains extremely strong throughout the world, including here at RF. I think the entitlement mentality is part of the problem, but there is a conditioning at play here that supports the exoneration of rape when it happens to certain people in certain situations, and an over-reaching desire to punish and torture those who DO commit a crime like this against - again - only a segment of people in specific situations.

It's not just an entitlement mentality. These are depressingly symptomatic of a widespread dehumanization of entire demographics.

Yes, you've perfectly summed up the "loophole theory of rape", where it's not really "violence" if you're really horny, or if it looks like your target might be horny, or if you're young, or if they've failed to take a ridiculous level of precautions to guard their personal safety. It is depressing.

Part of the reason it's depressing is that if these guys get raped, they're going to have a really hard time with it. They're not going to seek help, they're going to blame themselves, they're going to feel alone and isolated, they're going to be more likely to engage in self-destructive behavior, and they're not going to tell anyone. It doesn't have to be like that.

 

[DallasApple]

I'm curious about something, though. I am having difficulty understanding why you believe male victims are unimportant in the discussion. I believe it's critical to the discussion because it offers a clear example of why rape is not a sexual act when a heterosexual male or lesbian female can rape a male regardless of the situation.

I know you weren't talking to me but I think "reasons" for rape vary.Like I dont' think Catholic priest (sorry) raped little boys for power or dominance" It was purely sexual IMHO..They wanted to get laid.

 

[Poeticus]

Namaste,

I agree that females are raped at astonishing rates during war. Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems you are suggesting that a woman's victimization is considered a distinguishing factor if she is considered attractive according to the local cultural attitudes of beauty.

This is what I mean:

The best looking women are affected the most during war rape. The perpetrators send out a clear message to the men of the opposing group: "look at what we have done; we have raped your most beautiful women and there was nothing you could do about it; all of you men are weak and you couldn't even protect your own women, let alone the best women of your species!"....stuff like that....that is what I am trying to say....

I'm curious about something, though. I am having difficulty understanding why you believe male victims are unimportant in the discussion. I believe it's critical to the discussion because it offers a clear example of why rape is not a sexual act when a heterosexual male or lesbian female can rape a male regardless of the situation. A woman who shows her breasts who only wants to feel the air against her skin is asking for rape as much as a male prisoner of war who only wants to get home to see his family.

I don't think they are unimportant; I just believe that male on male rape is more complex. In fact, I am very ignorant about male on male rape, yet I acknowledge that it happens with a vicious tenacity. I do not deny its occurrence and maybe the posters I was replying to believed that I was when that was not the case.

Furthermore, women in Bali walk around without torso-wear in the villages. Yet, they aren't raped for being half naked. They are raped for many reasons but being half naked isn't the sole cause. And, yes, a male prisoner is also subjected to rape under horrible captors. But, I don't think they are "asking" for rape...them "asking" for rape would be rape myth acceptance, right?

M.V.

 

[Alceste]

they are the majority.

Sure, but I suspect they are planning their assaults in advance, and I see little evidence to the contrary. At some point, the rapist decides they're going to ignore the lack of consent, and that rarely seems to occur "in the heat of the moment". It may be an ongoing characteristic of an abusive relationship, it may be a form of punishment for perceived bad behavior, it may be a method of establishing control or dominance in a relationship, but it never seems to be because someone got really horny. My friends who have been raped by their partners did not detail a scenario for me where it sounded like he just got a little carried away in the heat of the moment. They clearly said no, and their partners clearly ignored their refusal of consent.

Me, when I get really horny, I seduce my husband, or if he's busy, have a wank. Simple. To FORCE my husband to do me because I'm horny, even if he isn't into it, is not in my nature. If it were, it would take a little bit of planning.

 

[MysticSang'ha]

Yes, you've perfectly summed up the "loophole theory of rape", where it's not really "violence" if you're really horny, or if it looks like your target might be horny, or if you're young, or if they've failed to take a ridiculous level of precautions to guard their personal safety. It is depressing.

Part of the reason it's depressing is that if these guys get raped, they're going to have a really hard time with it. They're not going to seek help, they're going to blame themselves, they're going to feel alone and isolated, they're going to be more likely to engage in self-destructive behavior, and they're not going to tell anyone. It doesn't have to be like that.

Tell me about it. I remember starting a thread a while back asking the question why we don't educate our sons how to keep themselves from getting raped. There is the assumption that our sons, our husbands, our fathers are incapable of getting raped. I was already depressed when I would see the irony of teaching our daughters, sisters, and mothers self-defense and carrying around pepper spray as precautionary measures (as if the responsibility still rests squarely on a victims shoulders), but what compounded my feelings of occasional hopelessness is the realization that nothing is said about male victims of rape. That so little is studied about it, talked about it, funds directed toward it....And the entire time the survivors not only feel alone, but realistically ARE alone.

 

[Alceste]

Namaste,

That the women are responsible for being raped. That the victim is the perpetrator. Isn't that what rape myth acceptance is? Accepting false notions that the women asked to be raped?

M.V.

ps - I wasn't able to find proof or events of men being raped during the POI in 1947...

Could you find evidence that they were NOT raped?

 

[DallasApple]

Sure, but I suspect they are planning their assaults in advance, and I see little evidence to the contrary. At some point, the rapist decides they're going to ignore the lack of consent, and that rarely seems to occur "in the heat of the moment". It may be an ongoing characteristic of an abusive relationship, it may be a form of punishment for perceived bad behavior, it may be a method of establishing control or dominance in a relationship, but it never seems to be because someone got really horny. My friends who have been raped by their partners did not detail a scenario for me where it sounded like he just got a little carried away in the heat of the moment. They clearly said no, and their partners clearly ignored their refusal of consent.

Me, when I get really horny, I seduce my husband, or if he's busy, have a wank. Simple. To FORCE my husband to do me because I'm horny, even if he isn't into it, is not in my nature. If it were, it would take a little bit of planning.

I dont think they are "planning" I think its a "mentality" that takes over.