Seeking a spiritual mentor

[Karolina]

I recommend some kind of practice that includes some kind of community service with some other people.

That narrowed it down

 

[Karolina]

Since there are no spiritual beings, I wonder where you will find a spiritual mentor. You mean a mentor looking like, and being so elusive like that poltergeist, or ghost character in the respective movie?

Ciao

- viole

I wonder why you bother responding if the topic of my question is just one big joke to you.

 

[SaintUriah]

I would first have to believe Adam was a historical figure, which I do not. I would then have to believe God tells prophets revelations that God doesn't tell the rest of us who listen for His still, small voice, which I don't.

As an aside, I have already considered Islam and thanks to that experience realize what it has in common with Judaism and Christianity is this idea of exclusive knowledge revealed by God only to the prophets, who are then tasked with passing on God's message to the rest of the world.

I believe God can and does speak for Himself to anyone and everyone who turns to Him. No need for a holy book or prophet to interpret and apply the message.

They said why the Messenger was not an angel
Why they are people like us?
They worship good people How if they were angels
who created the skys and the earth is the same who created Adam

You believe in skys and earth

Say, O Creator of skys and earth, open my eyes that in my chest before my face
Take my hand to the path of light

Nobody will help you because they need help

If you follow most of them, They put you in a lost road

 

[SaintUriah]

Arianism - Wikipedia

Be Arian
Better than others

 

[Vinayaka]

Thank you. I think you are correct. I'm looking for a path. I don't know that I'm "looking" for God. I think God is already all around and it's just a matter of a reliable practice to replace the Catholic-Christian one I've grown accustomed to.

Many of your beliefs that you've put to words do jive with Hinduism, but I'm still trying to figure out if it might fit. We don't believe in prophets, and we also believe God is everywhere, permeating all form, and that we can communicate with God, with no intermediary. My main problem in continuing any dialogue here is that I'm really personally sworn to not proselytising one iota, and I don't want you to get the wrong idea about that. Truth is, I could care less about getting anyone to convert. Most especially, from Abrahamic religions, it generally just causes a huge lot of confusion in the individual. On a practice level, we Hindus vary, but as for comparisons to anything Abrahamic, the Catholic Church would be the closest, as there is ritual and personal sadhana (like vespers) involved. It's all up to the individual, with nobody dictating what we should or shouldn't do. I think there might be some school within this vast umbrella called Hinduism, that maybe, just maybe, you'd fit into.

 

[Jim]

I recommend some kind of practice that includes some kind of community service with some other people.

That narrowed it down

Maybe some kind of community service on the side, along with whatever practice you choose. If you’re still looking for a mentor, any mentoring you find might have some psychological and social dependence associated with it. Some kind of community service might help keep you independent. Some kind of community service where people from different religions are working together, but not explicitly interfaith.

 

[Jim]

@Karolina I’ve been reviewing your posts, trying to understand better what you’re looking for.

I started to pray for God to teach me how to follow God without denominational affiliation. ... I need someone who appreciates my need for the spiritual life ... I am not certain what role Jesus ought to play in my spirituality. What I have read about Jesus makes me want to follow his teachings ... for the most part. But first, I no longer believe that what we know about him is as reliable as I once thought. Second, as long as I identified as a Christian or Jesus-follower, He could do no wrong. But now I have to wonder about his teaching on ... I think I am most comfortable with ... I believe .., that God's intentions for humanity's behavior are indeed "written on our hearts". ... I don’t believe... I find it very troublesome ...I need to keep going somewhere, and that's where I'm most familiar. But I also struggle to figure out how to present both Catholicism and God in general to my kids.... allowing my emotions to substitute for genuine faith ... I just feel very indoctrinated. I feel as though my emotions were highly taken advantage of as well-meaning people led me ... I am experiencing an inner conflict between a sense of freedom (to think) and a grieving for the belonging ... I am learning to think for myself, trust myself, stop depending on external validation and approval, and quit trying to please everyone. I have a hard time with organized religion because of the above factors. I think it's got to be all or nothing for me, meaning I'm either going with organized religion and staying codependent to it, or I'm going rouge and being a free-thinker and continuing on my path of recovery. ... I was going through some old papers and found several worship songs from prior retreats that I had loved listening to, and this sparked that grief I mentioned about missing it all, even if I think it was a rouse.

What about Catholicism turned me off finally? The literalist Catholics who insisted Adam and Eve were historical people. Honestly, that was the straw that broke the camel's back.]

What am I looking for in a spiritual mentor? Mostly a listening ear, and suggestions for how to draw closer to God from a variety of sources, without insisting I try this or that.

Have I experienced God communicating with me? Yes. God led my husband and me together, and he led us to our children. He's given me lots of insights into the marvels of the universe/multiverse (take your pick) and I've never doubted "His" existence. Whenever I take the time to be still and quiet, I sense God's message. And it's never to tell other people what to do, but rather what I should be doing.

Random thoughts:

- I started wondering, who is this God that you want to follow, what do you mean by following him, and why would you want to? I see that you might think that he answers prayers, and that he has led you places and given you insights in the past. Maybe there are some clues there about how to follow him and learn from him now.

For most of my life I’ve pictured myself as the little drummer boy. I don’t know how to do all the good I want to do. All I can think of to do is play my little toy drum for Him, and sometimes I think that I see Him smiling at me. I never have any doubt that it pleases Him to see me helping with the education and training of children. I never have any doubt that I want to help spread the best kind of love. Currently for me it all revolves around practicing and promoting spiritual growth and community service.

- Maybe you’d like to find someone who can help you read what God has written on your heart? Maybe that could be more than one person.

- What are your priorities, if you can’t follow God, and have everything else you think you want, at the same time? I’ve always thought that no matter how it looks to me, there can’t be anything better for me than what God wants for me.

- I still think it might be good for you to read the gospel stories, from your new perspective. You might see a Jesus who is very different from the way you’ve always pictured him, and reading those stories might help you find part of what you’re looking for.

 

[Jim]

Have I experienced God communicating with me? Yes. God led my husband and me together, and he led us to our children. He's given me lots of insights into the marvels of the universe/multiverse (take your pick) and I've never doubted "His" existence. Whenever I take the time to be still and quiet, I sense God's message. And it's never to tell other people what to do, but rather what I should be doing.

What do you think of the idea that part of what God uses, to communicate with you and write things into your heart, is the world and the people around you?

 

[Jim]

@Karolina I might have an answer to the question I asked you. You do see the world and the people around you as part of what God uses to communicate with you and write messages into your heart. That’s why you’re looking for a mentor, and asking questions in these forums. What do you you think of the idea that God uses different people in different ways? Also, what do you think of the idea that sometimes prejudices, delusions and personal desires can get in the way of that communication?

 

[Karolina]

Yesterday I started attending this month-long event called Courageous Conversations that deals with race and religion. People from various walks of life sharing their stories. I noticed a few mentioned organizations other than religions when asked what affiliation was most relevant to their being there. So I'll need to find out more about these groups and see if they fit. Someone there has the habit of taking religion and philosophy classes at the local college, that also made me think it'd be a good place to connect. I have an unaffiliated friend with whom I've talked about my beliefs, that's been good.

Lately too I've noticed I miss the belonging. I realize it came at a price- I had to leave my critical thinking at the door. But in exchange I got a sense of being a part of something bigger than myself. Unfortunately, I also got along with that a fellowship based sort of on "us vs them". So I'm having to weigh the two sides and convince myself it wasn't worth it after all.

My understanding of God is in flux right now. That's why I'm not sure if I should pursue Eastern thought or not. Then again, I won't be able to rule it out without looking again more deeply into it. Namely Zen or Pure Land Buddhism, or Hinduism. My understanding of both up to now had been that there is no Creator God in one, and that there are multiple deities in the other. Perhaps it's just my limited understanding of "God" (I'm hoping). Bc I'm pretty strongly in the monotheistic camp.

 

[Karolina]

Many of your beliefs that you've put to words do jive with Hinduism, but I'm still trying to figure out if it might fit. We don't believe in prophets, and we also believe God is everywhere, permeating all form, and that we can communicate with God, with no intermediary. My main problem in continuing any dialogue here is that I'm really personally sworn to not proselytising one iota, and I don't want you to get the wrong idea about that. Truth is, I could care less about getting anyone to convert. Most especially, from Abrahamic religions, it generally just causes a huge lot of confusion in the individual. On a practice level, we Hindus vary, but as for comparisons to anything Abrahamic, the Catholic Church would be the closest, as there is ritual and personal sadhana (like vespers) involved. It's all up to the individual, with nobody dictating what we should or shouldn't do. I think there might be some school within this vast umbrella called Hinduism, that maybe, just maybe, you'd fit into.

Could you explain why you are personally sworn not to proselytize? Is this part of your faith tradition? A RF imperative for this thread? I'm always curious when someone *doesn't* try to convert me, it's such a nice change from my usual experience.

 

[Karolina]

Arianism - Wikipedia

Be Arian
Better than others

Thanks. I have considered several of these modern faiths, but still heavy on the prophetic revelations.

 

[Jim]

Yesterday I started attending this month-long event called Courageous Conversations that deals with race and religion. People from various walks of life sharing their stories. I noticed a few mentioned organizations other than religions when asked what affiliation was most relevant to their being there. So I'll need to find out more about these groups and see if they fit. Someone there has the habit of taking religion and philosophy classes at the local college, that also made me think it'd be a good place to connect. I have an unaffiliated friend with whom I've talked about my beliefs, that's been good.

That all looks very promising to me. Also, participating in events like that can be a kind of community service if you do it with that purpose in mind.

Lately too I've noticed I miss the belonging. I realize it came at a price- I had to leave my critical thinking at the door. But in exchange I got a sense of being a part of something bigger than myself. Unfortunately, I also got along with that a fellowship based sort of on "us vs them". So I'm having to weigh the two sides and convince myself it wasn't worth it after all.

I’m hoping for you that you will continue to resist those temptations.

My understanding of God is in flux right now. That's why I'm not sure if I should pursue Eastern thought or not. Then again, I won't be able to rule it out without looking again more deeply into it. Namely Zen or Pure Land Buddhism, or Hinduism. My understanding of both up to now had been that there is no Creator God in one, and that there are multiple deities in the other. Perhaps it's just my limited understanding of "God" (I'm hoping). Bc I'm pretty strongly in the monotheistic camp.

I posted something in another thread that might interest you.

I don`t understand the concept of only one GOD.

 

[Vinayaka]

Could you explain why you are personally sworn not to proselytize? Is this part of your faith tradition? A RF imperative for this thread? I'm always curious when someone *doesn't* try to convert me, it's such a nice change from my usual experience.

I've seen just so much harm personally from it. Families torn apart, neighbours against neighbours, right from childhood, and I've learned from that observation just not to do it. The very last thing I'd want to do is cause family disharmony or pain. It's himsa.

 

[Karolina]

That all looks very promising to me. Also, participating in events like that can be a kind of community service if you do it with that purpose in mind.

I’m hoping for you that you will continue to resist those temptations.

I posted something in another thread that might interest you.

I don`t understand the concept of only one GOD.

Thanks. I'll have to really ponder the meaning of the concept of "God" now.

 

[Jim]

Thanks. I'll have to really ponder the meaning of the concept of "God" now.

It might be helpful to ponder the different ways that people use the word “God,” and what you’ve been thinking and feeling yourself in different contexts where you use the word. I’ll give some examples. I think that sometimes when people say “I believe in God,” they don’t actually have any clear idea themselves of what that means. They’re only saying that because they think it’s important to believe in God, so they’re telling themselves that they do. Sometimes it might be because they feel like “God” is the best word for some part of how they think about the universe. Sometimes they’re thinking of some things that happen in their lives that feel like some invisible person helping them or communicating with them, and thinking of that all coming from God.

 

[Jim]

Thanks. I'll have to really ponder the meaning of the concept of "God" now.

From what you’ve said, it looks to me like your idea of God might be like an invisible person who created the universe, who sometimes gives you things that you pray for, and who helps you and gives you good ideas sometimes. I personally don’t think that there actually is any such being as any creator God that anyone will ever be able to imagine or describe, but I think that it can be a useful metaphor for some purposes, if we use it in the right ways for those purposes. For me the right ways do not include using it to draw lines of alienation between people or to validate and camouflage prejudices, delusions, and animosities towards other people.

 

[Aupmanyav]

Could you explain why you are personally sworn not to proselytize? Is this part of your faith tradition? A RF imperative for this thread? I'm always curious when someone *doesn't* try to convert me, it's such a nice change from my usual experience.

Hindus are a proud people, proud of their ancient religion. It will be demeaning for us to ask someone to convert to Hinduism. It must come by the person's own choice after he/she finds something in Hinduism that is better than the other religions.

 

[PearlSeeker]

So... I am a recovering Catholic. Lifetime seeker. Several times I've seriously considered converting to one religion or another, ultimately always returning to the faith tradition of my upbringing. Last year, totally unexpectedly, I woke up one day and started to doubt again. I started to pray for God to teach me how to follow God without denominational affiliation. I was about to start pursuing formal membership in the Religious Society of Friends (Quakers) when I realized I would just be changing my affiliation, and not following God directly.

I need guidance. I've had spiritual directors in the past, but they've either been Catholic or once, a Quaker. I need someone who appreciates my need for the spiritual life without trying to convince me to follow their preferred path.

I am not certain what role Jesus ought to play in my spirituality. What I have read about Jesus makes me want to follow his teachings.... for the most part. But first, I no longer believe that what we know about him is as reliable as I once thought. Second, as long as I identified as a Christian or Jesus-follower, He could do no wrong. But now I have to wonder about his teaching on divorce. I am happily married, but I've recently met several people going through this difficult transition, and I was concerned to find that the Bible clearly states, at least the Christian Scriptures, that Jesus was against divorce "except if the marriage is unlawful". What about abuse? Neglect? How about when one of the spouses fails to fulfill the role of spouse any longer? Yes, for better or for worse, but I feel our society has turned marriage into an idol. But I digress... this post is not about marriage or divorce. Rather, this is an example of a teaching of Jesus that I simply cannot rectify. There are a few other concerns, but they're beside the point here.

I think I am most comfortable with free thinking. I do not believe in revelations to prophets for the sake of humanity. I believe in personal revelation to individuals, relevant only to them. I believe in universal revelation as evident in nature. I believe in natural laws/first principles and that God's intentions for humanity's behavior are indeed "written on our hearts". I am leaning towards reincarnation as a valid afterlife possibility. I do not believe God punishes people for their beliefs or lack of beliefs. I believe God is just and our actions have consequences (karma?) one way or another. I'm ok not knowing the details. I'm also ok not knowing the details of Who God is - how can anyone claim to even come close? I'm not sure if God is "personal" in the sense of being an individual personality. Rather, I think descriptions like "ultimate Mind/Source/Reality" are more true than any attempts at specificity.

I no longer believe in the Devil, as my limited time studying Judaism showed me how the Christian concept of Satan creates a dual-god system of "a good god vs a bad god", borrowed from Zoroastrainism. I believe we are an extension of God in some way ("made in God's image"), so when bad things happen to good people, it's because someone was sleeping on the job. Or many someones. They could've been far removed both in space and time, but we are all interconnected, and so we cannot "blame God" - we can only blame ourselves collectively.

I'll be honest, I really like the theology of Judaism as was explained to me in the Intro to Judaism class I took. However, I don't believe in the prophets' revelations, and I don't believe any group of people is any more chosen than another. So I can neither convert nor consider myself a Noahide. I also really appreciate the social justice focus of the Quakers, but I find it very troublesome to be surrounded by almost entirely white people, as my family is multi-cultural/ethnic/lingual and I would not be able to feel at home without some ethnic diversity.

I am currently continuing on with attendance at Catholic mass periodically, but no longer out of "Catholic guilt" regarding "Sunday obligation" (Catholics are committing as sin if they don't show up to Mass every Sunday without good cause.). I go because I need to keep going somewhere, and that's where I'm most familiar. But I also struggle to figure out how to present both Catholicism and God in general to my kids.

I was smitten by a very charismatic and - dare I say holy? - priest whose faith and demeanor helped me out of a post-partum and existential depression and back into faith. But within a month of his leaving our church, I started to have doubts again. Now I feel as though I was in a cult-like environment, allowing my emotions to substitute for genuine faith. There was an annual women's retreat through this church that I went to every year for about four years, which also contributed to this in-group feeling. And there was a very emotionally charged praise and worship service monthly that, once the charismatic priest left, deteriorated and I stopped going.

I mention those details because I think they contribute to my assessment that I was in a cult-like environment. That's not to say that I think Catholic church is a cult. Not any more than any other organized religion, anyway. I just feel very indoctrinated. I feel as though my emotions were highly taken advantage of as well-meaning people led me "back to Christ".

I am experiencing an inner conflict between a sense of freedom (to think) and a grieving for the belonging that, while it clearly was transient and conditional, was still nice while it lasted.

I should finally mention that I am in recovery for codependence, which means I am learning to think for myself, trust myself, stop depending on external validation and approval, and quit trying to please everyone. I have a hard time with organized religion because of the above factors. I think it's got to be all or nothing for me, meaning I'm either going with organized religion and staying codependent to it, or I'm going rouge and being a free-thinker and continuing on my path of recovery.

Anyway, to anyone who actually read all of this, thank you for your interest. What led me to post this right now, by the way, was that I was going through some old papers and found several worship songs from prior retreats that I had loved listening to, and this sparked that grief I mentioned about missing it all, even if I think it was a rouse. They don't say ignorance is bliss for nothing. If anyone is on a remotely similar journey as me and would be interested in sharing experiences and ideas, or if you've been there done that and have some insights to share, I welcome both.

Thank you for letting me share.

Karolina, thank you for sharing. I also come from a Catholic family. When I was younger I used to believe blindly but when years passed I needed to research what do I actually believe, how truthful is the base of every article of faith, what do other religions teach ... Now I still attend the church but I don't automatically buy into everything. I agree with most of what you wrote. In the church I can't share my views so I'm keeping it to myself.

I have found some consolidation in mystic branch of Christianity and nondual consciousness e. g. Meister Eckhart ("all mediation is foreign to God"), Richard Rohr.

 

[Aman Uensis]

Lately too I've noticed I miss the belonging. I realize it came at a price- I had to leave my critical thinking at the door. But in exchange I got a sense of being a part of something bigger than myself. Unfortunately, I also got along with that a fellowship based sort of on "us vs them". So I'm having to weigh the two sides and convince myself it wasn't worth it after all.

You've hit the nail on the head when it comes to the price paid for a sense of belonging. Good luck in your search for a spiritual mentor, but I feel like you're wise enough to guide yourself for the time being. Trust in your logic and reason and sense of what is decent. It will not lead you astray.