Self as a Force vs a Form of Matter

[Fool]

If we think of self more as a force, or energy, are we more likely to see ourselves as a wave vs a particle, a thing finite/limited in space/time?


energy cannot be created/destroyed but simply transformed.
forms are created/destroyed but transform to some state of energy?


obviously our form changes from birth to death; so then; which form is self?

 

[bobhikes]

If we think of self more as a force, or energy, are we more likely to see ourselves as a wave vs a particle, a thing finite/limited in space/time?


energy cannot be created/destroyed but simply transformed.
forms are created/destroyed but transform to some state of energy?


obviously our form changes from birth to death; so then; which form is self?

Energy or force is used to maintain the Form. The self is the rules and conduit used to guide the energy about the form. The form can be lost due to lack of self or energy.

 

[Fool]

Energy or force is used to maintain the Form. The self is the rules and conduit used to guide the energy about the form. The form can be lost due to lack of self or energy.

i've actually read that the mind can grow or atrophy, expand or diminish

so this energy, like light, would keep on rippling throughout time and space? causing a butterfly effect?

 

[bobhikes]

i've actually read that the mind can grow or atrophy, expand or diminish

so this energy, like light, would keep on rippling throughout time and space? causing a butterfly effect?

Its possible but energy changes form during use even in the mind.

 

[Thief]

which form is self?

this shell I am stuck in will fail

I will attempt to stand from this thing when the last breath is surrendered

the other option is to follow it into the grave

so.....I hope to become spirit
likely to retain memory
if that fails the 'self' posting this remark will be ......different

it is written somewhere....
Do not conform to this world
Be transformed by it

 

[Sir Doom]

The energy isn't 'me' either. What I think becomes what I say and do. What I say and do has a lasting effect on reality itself, no matter how miniscule it is. What will live on is the memory of my presence. In my fellow humans and in the environment I've shaped by my thoughts and words and actions.

Hoping for more than that would feel greedy.

 

[Thief]

The energy isn't 'me' either. What I think becomes what I say and do. What I say and do has a lasting effect on reality itself, no matter how miniscule it is. What will live on is the memory of my presence. In my fellow humans and in the environment I've shaped by my thoughts and words and actions.

Hoping for more than that would feel greedy.

I think oblivion is the norm

 

[Fool]

The energy isn't 'me' either. What I think becomes what I say and do. What I say and do has a lasting effect on reality itself, no matter how miniscule it is. What will live on is the memory of my presence. In my fellow humans and in the environment I've shaped by my thoughts and words and actions.

Hoping for more than that would feel greedy.

i'm speaking of the true self and not the personal self. thoughts and memories arise from a mind. obviously when thoughts aren't rising, the mind doesn't cease to exist.

mind is the builder of thoughts, keeper of memories, but what is it when it isn't creating/building, keeping things?

 

[Sir Doom]

i'm speaking of the true self and not the personal self.

You are speaking of something unknown to me then. I don't see any difference.

thoughts and memories arise from a mind. obviously when thoughts aren't rising, the mind doesn't cease to exist.

I've never experienced anything like that. It isn't obvious at all. My mind continually thinks. It doesn't ask permission. When it stops, I stop.

mind is the builder of thoughts, keeper of memories, but what is it when it isn't creating/building, keeping things?

That's all it does... so nothing.

 

[Fool]

You are speaking of something unknown to me then. I don't see any difference.

there was this energy that people arise from and continues to exist after the personality collapses. you've attached the self to a form, yet it doesn't have an exact form. which form is self? the one at 5 yrs old? the one at 10 yrs? 21?

strangely enough all those forms tend to refer to themselves as I. which i am i?

I've never experienced anything like that. It isn't obvious at all. My mind continually thinks. It doesn't ask permission. When it stops, I stop.

what happens if it doesn't stop? random consciousness keeps the autonomic system working just fine by using matter and energy to keep matter functioning. so it boils down to electrical impulses(energy) moving upon the surface of matter.there are two types of physical phenomena: 1 energy(dark/light) or 2 matter(dark/light).

they are basically the same thing in theory of relativity and quantum mechanics. they are just termed energy and matter in relativity and particle and waves in quantum physics


now a secret:

when consciousness moves on matter, shadowing appears


2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

Mark 4:32
But when it is sown, it groweth up, and becometh greater than all herbs, and shooteth out great branches; so that the fowls of the air may lodge under the shadow of it.

Luke 1:35
And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.

John 3:5
Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water(matter) and of the consciousness(Spirit), he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.


John 3:8
The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.

 

[Sir Doom]

there was this energy that people arise from and continues to exist after the personality collapses.
you've attached the self to a form, yet it doesn't have an exact form. which form is self? the one at 5 yrs old? the one at 10 yrs? 21?

strangely enough all those forms tend to refer to themselves as I. which i am i?

So, when I sit in a chair and warm it up with my butt, I'm leaving a bit of my 'true self' on the chair? After all, that's my body changing energy from calories into heat. Shouldn't I be able to experience 'chairness' considering my 'true self' is now occupying the chair? Or maybe there is more to what I am then energy, as I said.

I am not my 5 year old self. The 5 year old self that I remember is not even my 5 year old self. To think otherwise would be dissociative identity disorder. You may want to look into that if you are having trouble telling the difference between past, present and future versions of yourself. Honestly, I really think you should frame your post in the first person to avoid telling me how I consider things. Because you are way off.

what happens if it doesn't stop? random consciousness keeps the autonomic system working just fine by using matter and energy to keep matter functioning. so it boils down to electrical impulses(energy) moving upon the surface of matter.there are two types of physical phenomena: 1 energy(dark/light) or 2 matter(dark/light).

they are basically the same thing in theory of relativity and quantum mechanics. they are just termed energy and matter in relativity and particle and waves in quantum physics

It isn't stopping. So, I'm still alive. Other than the overwhelming evidence of an eventual stoppage, I see no reason to expect it to happen. I'll just keep living until I don't.

 

[Fool]

So, when I sit in a chair and warm it up with my butt, I'm leaving a bit of my 'true self' on the chair? After all, that's my body changing energy from calories into heat. Shouldn't I be able to experience 'chairness' considering my 'true self' is now occupying the chair? Or maybe there is more to what I am then energy, as I said.

so if it's you changing calories into heat; how is that you? you've obviously assimilated some form of matter within your current state of matter and expended some as well. so how much matter are you? the amount at 5? the amount at 15? 25? ????

again obviously the autonomic nervous system works by using some form of intelligence to manipulate matter unconsciously. does it need more/less? how does it know what to do. obviously the matter isn't controlling it, it is controlling the third density, chemical matter that you refer to as the body.

 

[Sir Doom]

so if it's you changing calories into heat; how is that you? you've obviously assimilated some form of matter within your current state of matter and expended some as well. so how much matter are you? the amount at 5? the amount at 15? 25? ????

Because what I am is a combination of a lot of things. Not just energy. Not just matter. Not just the environment. Not just memory. Not just will. Not just time. Not just space. Not just any one aspect. It is only the particular manner in which they are combined that results in 'me'. I am not you because you are not the same combination of things that I am. That's exactly why I'm not the 5 year old me, either. That combination is no longer available. The one I'm in now is fleeting and will not return.

Consider this. Where is 'The Mona Lisa'? Is it the paint? The canvas? The frame? The nails? The artist's imagination? The observer's imagination? Is it the light reflecting off of the paint and into our eyes? Is it our eyes?

Attempting to pick one of these things is impossible because The Mona Lisa is all of those things at once. If you strip the paint from the canvas and unpin the canvas from the frame you will not have the Mona Lisa anymore. You'll have paint chips, canvas and wood (and probably a lot of explaining to do). The Mona Lisa will be destroyed. It will not 'live on' if someone takes the wood and makes toothpicks out of it. It will not 'live on' if someone re-frames the canvas and paints something else on it. It will not 'live on' if someone reconstitutes the paint and uses it to recreate the Mona Lisa. The only place it 'lives on' is in the memory of those who experienced it and the unmistakable effect of its presence

again obviously the autonomic nervous system works by using some form of intelligence to manipulate matter unconsciously.

That's not so obvious since 'unconscious' and 'intelligence' are a bit at odds.

does it need more/less? how does it know what to do. obviously the matter isn't controlling it, it is controlling the third density, chemical matter that you refer to as the body.

That's the 'energy' referred to when one says 'energy cannot be created or destroyed, only changed'. That is exactly what that is talking about. You seem to think there is a dominate relationship between matter and energy but that's definitely not the case. They are literally the same exact thing. One is not 'controlling' the other.

 

[Fool]

That's the 'energy' referred to when one says 'energy cannot be created or destroyed, only changed'. That is exactly what that is talking about. You seem to think there is a dominate relationship between matter and energy but that's definitely not the case. They are literally the same exact thing. One is not 'controlling' the other.

einstein said energy and matter are simply different forms of the same thing. matter = energy or energy = matter.

i know this. matter is just energy vibrating at a lower/higher level than that which it is in contrast to.we know that a hole in the earth is obviously not empty. it contains something but that something is less dense than that which surrounds it and giving the appearance of empty. of course, its empty of dirt but it isn't empty of everything.

so a glass is never half empty, or half full, its always over flowing

Psalm 23:5
Thou preparest a table before me in the presence of mine enemies: thou anointest my head with oil; my cup runneth over.

 

[Sir Doom]

Alright, at least we are on the same page there.

So, you are saying we should consider consciousness (that is 'us') to be a force akin to gravity, electromagnetism, strong and weak nuclear force, is that correct?

If so, I wonder how you divorce those things from the matter/energy that produces them.

If not, then I'm totally lost as to what you mean and we should start over.

 

[Fool]

Alright, at least we are on the same page there.

So, you are saying we should consider consciousness (that is 'us') to be a force akin to gravity, electromagnetism, strong and weak nuclear force, is that correct?

If so, I wonder how you divorce those things from the matter/energy that produces them.

If not, then I'm totally lost as to what you mean and we should start over.

they aren't divorced from it. all three are primary in the one, like the 3 primary colors create all other colors.


3 in 1

mind, matter, energy = the universe - absolute


panpsychism - infinite intelligence.

spooky action at a distance of strings(matter) vibrating(energy) as one(mind)

love is two bodies being of one mind

 

[ChristineM]

If we think of self more as a force, or energy, are we more likely to see ourselves as a wave vs a particle, a thing finite/limited in space/time?


energy cannot be created/destroyed but simply transformed.
forms are created/destroyed but transform to some state of energy?


obviously our form changes from birth to death; so then; which form is self?

Our form changes over time by incorporating atoms and molecules which are then released back into the system after we die.

Think then, where do these building components come from if energy/matter cannot be destroyed, only changed from one to the other. Yes. You guessed it, we are made, at least partially from dead people.

 

[Sir Doom]

they aren't divorced from it. all three are primary in the one, like the 3 primary colors create all other colors.

3 in 1

mind, matter, energy = the universe - absolute


panpsychism - infinite intelligence.

spooky action at a distance

Okay, I am no physicist (theoretic or otherwise) but I'm pretty sure there are four fundamental forces.

Gravitational Force
Electromagnetic Force
Strong Nuclear Force
Weak Nuclear Force

These four forces to one degree or another are responsible for every phenomenon we've perceived so far.

You seem to be saying that the mind is alongside or even above these.

To the best of my knowledge, there is no mind without a brain. I'm open to the possibility that mind may exist in different configurations, but until that is demonstrated...

 

[Fool]

Okay, I am no physicist (theoretic or otherwise) but I'm pretty sure there are four fundamental forces.

Gravitational Force
Electromagnetic Force
Strong Nuclear Force
Weak Nuclear Force

These four forces to one degree or another are responsible for every phenomenon we've perceived so far.

You seem to be saying that the mind is alongside or even above these.

To the best of my knowledge, there is no mind without a brain. I'm open to the possibility that mind may exist in different configurations, but until that is demonstrated...

i'm stating consciousness is equal to energy/force and matter.

two things are needed for consciousness; energy(in this case electrical) and matter.

a brain isn't necessary. an electrical transmitter is. that is where matter and energy comes in.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microbial_intelligence

https://academic.oup.com/bioscience/article/66/7/542/2463205

https://www.theverge.com/2018/5/1/17304486/slime-mold-swarm-intelligence-simon-garnier-video

 

[Sir Doom]

My apologies, but that is even harder to grasp. You are stating that an emergent property of matter/energy is on the same level as that which it emerged from. That's making my logic alarm go off.