Self Imposed Labels (religious)

[NIX]

For the sake of this thread let's stick mostly with 'religious' type labels.

Do our labels define us, or do we define our labels?

Who are our labels for? The self? or others?
What purpose do they really serve?
Do our labels serve us? Or do we serve our labels?

Do the outside effects our labels have on our lives say more about us (as deliberate label bearers), the world around us (and pop culture climate/media bias/slant/take), or the individuals who surround us? (and their own personal perceptions)

Do our religious labels reflect the desire of humans to be part of/associated with a group?
If you choose to share a label with others, is it then fair to complain when you don't like the actions and belief of others who (have also chosen to) identify by 'your' label?
If you knowingly choose to don a label that will often generate incorrect assumptions about you (and especially what you feel are negative assumptions) is there really any point in getting offended by it or upset about it when it inevitably happens?

In the end, are religious labels more subjective or objective in meaning and interpretation? If you say 'objective', I ask 'objective' by whose standards/authority?

Is there really any such thing as a "true"/real (or 'fake') ___________? (fill in the blank with any religion)
And who gets to say what that is? (or isn't)

 

[Cassiopia]

Interesting and thought provoking questions.
My answers are in red.

For the sake of this thread let's stick mostly with 'religious' type labels.

Do our labels define us, or do we define our labels?
Ideally we should define them but in reality it is usually more the other way round both for ourselves and others.

Who are our labels for? The self? or others?
Both

What purpose do they really serve?
They are a shorthand way to identify our core beliefs, however I am more and more of the opinion that their purpose is very limited and sometimes works against us. I am aware that the fact I use Satanism as a lable alienates some people who might listen to what I say more readily if I didn't use that label. At the same time it sometimes offends other Satanists whose views are quite different from mine.

Do our labels serve us? Or do we serve our labels?
They serve us but usually inadequately. We also serve them in varying degrees.

Do the outside effects our labels have on our lives say more about us (as deliberate label bearers), the world around us (and pop culture climate/media bias/slant/take), or the individuals who surround us? (and their own personal perceptions)
I think our labels have effects in all three of those areas. I don't know which is effected most, perhaps that depends on what the label is and who is wearing it.

Do our religious labels reflect the desire of humans to be part of/associated with a group?
Sometimes but not always. I am a Satanist because I am, it is as fundamental as the color of my eyes; but there are some Satanists (perhaps quite a lot) whom I don't want to be associated with.

If you choose to share a label with others, is it then fair to complain when you don't like the actions and belief of others who (have also chosen to) identify by 'your' label?
Yes, but this goes beyond the shorthand of the label. I get angry when I think other Satanists (or people who use that label) bring the fundamentals of my religion into disrepute.

If you knowingly choose to don a label that will often generate incorrect assumptions about you (and especially what you feel are negative assumptions) is there really any point in getting offended by it or upset about it when it inevitably happens?
Well this question definitely applies to me! I don't get offended. I do sometimes get frustrated. I try to see such occasions as possibilities for further discussion. That doesn't always work though.

In the end, are religious labels more subjective or objective in meaning and interpretation? If you say 'objective', I ask 'objective' by whose standards/authority?
I think they are much more subjective than objective.

Is there really any such thing as a "true"/real (or 'fake') ___________? (fill in the blank with any religion)
And who gets to say what that is? (or isn't)
There are fakes in all religions and walks of life; people who knowingly claim to be something they are not either to create mischief or further their own interests in some ways.
There are others who wrongly identify as something because they are mistaken about what the label means.
Mostly though I think we are all more than one thing. One label can never adequately define us, so we may sometimes mislead ourselves and others by leaning too heavily on one label when we are in fact speaking from a perspective that would better be described by another label. Does that make sense?

 

[SLAMH]

Do our labels define us, or do we define our labels?

Depends on to which party the question is targeted. If the question is aimed at a party that is interested on the average behavior manifested by a particular group, then the label define us with respect to them. However, if they are interested on the individual's conduct, then we define our label with respect to this group.

Who are our labels for? The self? or others?

Others.

What purpose do they really serve?

Identification.

Do our labels serve us? Or do we serve our labels?

The question is too general, needs more specification.

Do the outside effects our labels have on our lives say more about us (as deliberate label bearers), the world around us (and pop culture climate/media bias/slant/take), or the individuals who surround us? (and their own personal perceptions)

I don't think I understand the question.

Do our religious labels reflect the desire of humans to be part of/associated with a group?

Maybe. To me is a sort of demonstrating what I believe to be truth, and if at any point I'was going to change this label, then it would be for the same purpose.

If you choose to share a label with others, is it then fair to complain when you don't like the actions and belief of others who (have also chosen to) identify by 'your' label?

No point of complaining, and I can't tell if it is fair or not. But, I would certainly criticize them.

If you knowingly choose to don a label that will often generate incorrect assumptions about you (and especially what you feel are negative assumptions) is there really any point in getting offended by it or upset about it when it inevitably happens?

No point of getting upset.

In the end, are religious labels more subjective or objective in meaning and interpretation? If you say 'objective', I ask 'objective' by whose standards/authority?

The more general the term is, the more objective is. Islam is an objective label. However, If someone wants to go in depth and investigate the meaning of Islam, and on the basis of his finding wants to restrict the general label to a particular sect/part. Then, the term is more subjective.

Is there really any such thing as a "true"/real (or 'fake') ___________? (fill in the blank with any religion)

I cannot tell.

And who gets to say what that is? (or isn't)

No one.

 

[Awoon]

Can religion be found in DNA?

 

[waitasec]

For the sake of this thread let's stick mostly with 'religious' type labels.

Do our labels define us, or do we define our labels?

ultimately people define their religious labels...however there are those that believe their religious labels define them.

Who are our labels for? The self? or others?

from my POV, religious labels are for the self

What purpose do they really serve?

to define people
yet people define their religious labels

Do our labels serve us? Or do we serve our labels?

i often find that religious labels serve the adherent

Do the outside effects our labels have on our lives say more about us (as deliberate label bearers), the world around us (and pop culture climate/media bias/slant/take), or the individuals who surround us? (and their own personal perceptions)

when a large group of people are unified by a religious label...the effects become messy and ambiguous.

Do our religious labels reflect the desire of humans to be part of/associated with a group?

from my POV, yes.

If you choose to share a label with others, is it then fair to complain when you don't like the actions and belief of others who (have also chosen to) identify by 'your' label?

yes it is.

If you knowingly choose to don a label that will often generate incorrect assumptions about you (and especially what you feel are negative assumptions) is there really any point in getting offended by it or upset about it when it inevitably happens?

no there is not.

In the end, are religious labels more subjective or objective in meaning and interpretation? If you say 'objective', I ask 'objective' by whose standards/authority?

subjective

Is there really any such thing as a "true"/real (or 'fake') ___________? (fill in the blank with any religion)

no

And who gets to say what that is? (or isn't)

one can say anything to themselves....
one asserting something to others is either wrong or right would have to have some sort of support in order to back up their claim

 

[ChristineES]

Do our labels define us, or do we define our labels?

Both. I hope that people don't believe false things about me just because of my faith, but I don't know it happens once in a while.

Who are our labels for? The self? or others?

For others.

What purpose do they really serve?

To let others know what we believe.

Do our labels serve us? Or do we serve our labels?

Labels are not a good thing, usually. As I said above, people use them to "categorize" people. They can also be used to generalize people. There is more to people than just their faith- a lot more.

Do the outside effects our labels have on our lives say more about us (as deliberate label bearers), the world around us (and pop culture climate/media bias/slant/take), or the individuals who surround us? (and their own personal perceptions)

Sometimes, as I said in the last question, people form some preconceived notions about a person because of his or her faith.

Do our religious labels reflect the desire of humans to be part of/associated with a group?

Yes, usually. That would be the main purpose of the label, I would guess.

If you choose to share a label with others, is it then fair to complain when you don't like the actions and belief of others who (have also chosen to) identify by 'your' label?
If you knowingly choose to don a label that will often generate incorrect assumptions about you (and especially what you feel are negative assumptions) is there really any point in getting offended by it or upset about it when it inevitably happens?

Because, as I said earlier, people are more than just one label. If a person is a Christian, for example, they are not only a Christian. There are other things they follow, live, etc.

I

n the end, are religious labels more subjective or objective in meaning and interpretation? If you say 'objective', I ask 'objective' by whose standards/authority?

I would think they are more subjective.

Is there really any such thing as a "true"/real (or 'fake') ___________? (fill in the blank with any religion)

Certainly. There are dishonest people everywhere. But it is not my place to judge whether a person is a fake ______. Only each person can read his/her own thoughts.

And who gets to say what that is? (or isn't)

God and the person.

 

[NIX]

Do our labels serve us? Or do we serve our labels?

The question is too general, needs more specification.

Is your label there to show who you are- to paint a more succinct picture of 'you',
or are you there to show what your label means- to paint a more succinct picture of 'it'. To bring 'it' to life, so to speak.

Do the outside effects our labels have on our lives say more about us (as deliberate label bearers), the world around us (and pop culture climate/media bias/slant/take), or the individuals who surround us? (and their own personal perceptions)

I don't think I understand the question.

I'm getting at the fact that the outside world reacts to and makes certain assumptions about people of certain religions. (according to cultural norms and biases). Those assumptions may or may not be correct, and may work to the advantage or disadvantage of the label wearer. As such, we are effected/affected externally by the labels we take upon ourselves.
If our labels effect us socially in a negative way thus making our lives harder- who is to blame? In such a case, is it better to just keep your label to yourself? Is it your fault, or society's fault that you are seen in a negative light?
If our labels effect us socially in a positive way making our lives more easilly integrated with the cultural norms around us, is the label externally- little more than a public show/confirmation of conformity? Is this something to be applauded all around?

Which brings to mind another question. Is it really in your own best interest to wear an unpopular label? Or should you just wear it because you like it, regardless. What if there is cultural backlash?
Which brings us back to , who is the label ultimately for? What is it's purpose? Why would anyone WANT to be identified (by others) as something culturally damaging? (regardless of the fact that it is completely untrue)

 

[InfidelRiot]

The truth is that labels exist. It is absolutely impossible to describe someone without using a label. He, she, tall, short, brown hair, blond hair, gay, straight, introvert, extrovert, all of those and more are labels we daily use to describe ourselves and others.

 

[NIX]

For those of you who wear your religious labels primarily for others,
so that others might easily be able to identify your beliefs and philosophies
do you find that the general public perception/understanding of your label
does actually match your own understanding of your label?

In practice, is your label an accurate social identifier as you are concerned?
Or do people's personal associations with your label tend to speak more to them of their own associations with your label than they do of (what you actually mean by) 'your label'?

 

[NIX]

The truth is that labels exist. It is absolutely impossible to describe someone without using a label. He, she, tall, short, brown hair, blond hair, gay, straight, introvert, extrovert, all of those and more are labels we daily use to describe ourselves and others.

I think every responder in this thread though agreed that the meanings of religious labels are primarily subjective in nature.

Things like "he, she, tall, short, brown hair, blonde hair, gay, straight, introvert and extrovert" are far more objectively descriptive.

 

[NIX]

Is there really any such thing as a "true"/real (or 'fake') ___________? (fill in the blank with any religion)
And who gets to say what that is? (or isn't)

By 'fake', I was pointing more towards "incorrect".
Certainly there are people who don labels solely for some (social) benefit they are seeking and no other reason at all. (election to political office, keeping the family peace) These people have 'other reasons' for sticking a religious label on themselves. Some are charlatans, others maybe they just want to avoid (non conformity) drama.

By my original question I was getting more at the "true christian" / "false christian" kind of thing I have seen here on the forum. In other words, "I have it right, and you have it wrong" or "you are not correctly living or believing what this label really means- therefore you are not really 'that'" (label).

 

[NIX]

Also, thank you Cassiopia, SLAMH, waitasec and ChristineES for taking the time to address all those questions! A nice diverse sampling.

 

[NIX]

I'm going to venture a guess that most mainstream religious labels are primarily for the sake of identification by others, whereas most unpopular/unpopulated religious labels are more for the sake of self identification/identity.

 

[jasonwill2]

I am a Satanist.

I am a Pantheist.

I am a Hard Polytheist.

I am a Henthotheist, primary worshipping the Pantheistic deity that is the Creator, which is heavily identified with "Satan", while realizing that there are many, many gods that have existed throughout time as powerful souls of the dead. I currently worship Satan/God and a lesser god "Lilith".

I find these things to be useful labels, but they do not define me, as God is beyond all labels and titles. So is my path. But to articulate an idea, one must label all the parts to make them up, give them names.

 

[NIX]

I am a Satanist.

I am a Pantheist.

I am a Hard Polytheist.

I am a Henthotheist, primary worshipping the Pantheistic deity that is the Creator, which is heavily identified with "Satan", while realizing that there are many, many gods that have existed throughout time as powerful souls of the dead. I currently worship Satan/God and a lesser god "Lilith".

I find these things to be useful labels, but they do not define me, as God is beyond all labels and titles. So is my path. But to articulate an idea, one must label all the parts to make them up, give them names.

Beyond this forum (and other like minded people), In real everyday life, do you find that these labels actually help the people around you to accurately understand what you are about, or what you believe?
What are people's general reactions to your labels when you present them?

Or do the labels serve more to solidify your own perspectives and points of view to yourself?

 

[NIX]

A rather obvious thought that had not directly crossed my mind- maybe people find their labels useful in finding other like minded people. Like minded companionship is a generally sought after human experience.

 

[NIX]

And then some people choose to actively advertize their labels in hopes that others will 'switch brands'.
(in this case, people 'serve' their labels)

 

[McBell]

Seems to me that labels serve mainly to feed the elitism in people.

 

[waitasec]

Seems to me that labels serve mainly to feed the elitism in people.

well said...

 

[Jainarayan]

Do our labels define us, or do we define our labels?

My label is beginning to define me. That is, I am trying to change to fit what the tennets of my religion call for.

Who are our labels for? The self? or others?
What purpose do they really serve?
Do our labels serve us? Or do we serve our labels?

They are strictly for myself. I can draw lines that others should not cross, but it's ultimately up to me to live up to my label.

Do the outside effects our labels have on our lives say more about us (as deliberate label bearers), the world around us (and pop culture climate/media bias/slant/take), or the individuals who surround us? (and their own personal perceptions)

It says everything about me. I cannot change who or what's around me.

Do our religious labels reflect the desire of humans to be part of/associated with a group?
If you choose to share a label with others, is it then fair to complain when you don't like the actions and belief of others who (have also chosen to) identify by 'your' label?

Yes, humans are a social/herd/group species.

No, because while it's not an explicit tennet of my religion it becomes a matter of judging others when I myself could be subject to judgment.

If you knowingly choose to don a label that will often generate incorrect assumptions about you (and especially what you feel are negative assumptions) is there really any point in getting offended by it or upset about it when it inevitably happens?

There's no point, but it happens. The best course is to try to educate the person. Or change the subject.

In the end, are religious labels more subjective or objective in meaning and interpretation? If you say 'objective', I ask 'objective' by whose standards/authority?

Both. A self-label can be purely subjective. Or it can be objective if the religion has a central authority or doctrine.

Is there really any such thing as a "true"/real (or 'fake') ___________? (fill in the blank with any religion)
And who gets to say what that is? (or isn't)

Same as previous answer.