Self or Apple?

[atanu]

Many aver that spiritualists are vague and rely on anecdotes. In this regard, I ask what is more directly perceptible, the self or an apple on your palm?

 

[Papoon]

Many aver that spiritualists are vague and rely on anecdotes. In this regard, I ask what is more directly perceptible, the self or an apple on your palm?

I can't tell the difference.

 

[atanu]

I can't tell the difference.

"I can't tell the difference"? Hmm. Can you explain? I thought that an apple resting on palm is graspable and verifiable?

 

[Kueid]

Holy sheeit! That one is hard! I can't even..

 

[Kueid]

OK, let's begin... "Directly perceive" alludes to direct and indirect realism, in that sense the apple would be the only "directly perceived" and the self would be "indirect perceived". I don't have any knowledge beyond that to share right now.

 

[Kilgore Trout]

Many aver that spiritualists are vague and rely on anecdotes. In this regard, I ask what is more directly perceptible, the self or an apple on your palm?

Once again affirming the notion that spiritualists are vague and rely on anecdotes.

 

[atanu]

Once again affirming the notion that spiritualists are vague and rely on anecdotes.

There is a question also.

 

[Kilgore Trout]

There is a question also.

I don't know what "directly perceptible" is supposed to mean.

 

[Kueid]

I don't know what "directly perceptible" is supposed to mean.

Did you read what I wrote?

 

[atanu]

OK, let's begin... "Directly perceive" alludes to direct and indirect realism, in that sense the apple would be the only "directly perceived" and the self would be "indirect perceived". I don't have any knowledge beyond that to share right now.

Actually, I was not aiming so high.

Or, actually I am aiming a bit higher than the perspective of Direct and Indirect realism. Give me some time please.

 

[atanu]

I don't know what "directly perceptible" is supposed to mean.

Yes. This was my mistake.

I meant objective perception. Objective perception means pure perception, free from all positions, bias, filters, conflicts, intentions, etc. It is perceiving whatever it is without any obscuration or intermediacy, so we see it just the way it is in itself. In a way, I am saying purest objective perception is perception without intervention of any sense and mind data.

So. Which perception is more direct or more objective: an apple on palm or the self?

 

[Kueid]

Actually, I was not aiming so high.

Or, actually I am aiming a bit higher than the perspective of Direct and Indirect realism. Give me some time please.

I though so.. I gave the "academic response", you may call, that's why I replied two times. You could say that I perceived what you liked to express but had no means to explain it in words without writing a book about levels of abstraction and such.

 

[atanu]

We know more about the apple than about the self that cognises the apple. Is it not evident?

 

[allfoak]

We are able to perceive the apple as well as and no better than we perceive ourselves.

 

[Acim]

Yes. This was my mistake.

I meant objective perception. Objective perception means pure perception, free from all positions, bias, filters, conflicts, intentions, etc. It is perceiving whatever it is without any obscuration or intermediacy, so we see it just the way it is in itself. In a way, I am saying purest objective perception is perception without intervention of any sense and mind data.

So. Which perception is more direct or more objective: an apple on palm or the self?

Clearly self.

Without biases and filters, I don't know what an "apple" on "palm" would even be. I rationalize it would be 'nothing' on 'nothing.'

Then again, that would be self making that determination.

 

[Ouroboros]

Many aver that spiritualists are vague and rely on anecdotes. In this regard, I ask what is more directly perceptible, the self or an apple on your palm?

There is no apple, and there is no palm.

 

[YmirGF]

Many aver that spiritualists are vague and rely on anecdotes. In this regard, I ask what is more directly perceptible, the self or an apple on your palm?

I'm never unaware of self, even though my sense of "self" dilates and contracts depending on circumstance. It is only on occasion that there is a lovely apple in my hand (and there is usually a group of eager deer nearby waiting for me to toss them bits of it). I am quite willing to admit that my experience of "self" is very, very far from the norm.

 

[allfoak]

There is no apple, and there is no palm.

Would you like to borrow my apple colored glasses?
I can eat my apple and lick my palm when i am done.
Pretty dern satisfyin too!

 

[Ouroboros]

Would you like to borrow my apple colored glasses?
I can eat my apple and lick my palm when i am done.
Pretty dern satisfyin too!

Bah. Satisfaction is just an illusion.

 

[allfoak]

Bah. Satisfaction is just an illusion.

Then i live in a wonderful world of illusion where everything is real.