InsurgoInsurgiInsurrect
Member
The idea that some people should be entitled to luxury at the expense of others for whatever reason is something many will rationalize in detail but is obviously wrong.
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Servants - yes or no?
- Thread starter nnmartin
- Start date
The idea that some people should be entitled to luxury at the expense of others for whatever reason is something many will rationalize in detail but is obviously wrong.
Seriously - I don't see what the point of contention here is? You seriously don't think it's ok to have servants? You do know the difference between servants and slaves right? Having slaves is NOT ok. Having servants is TOTALLY ok. The question of whether or not people treat servants right is not any grounds to ban having servants altogether. It's just a form of employment. What's really the difference between my hiring a cook or a butler, and going to have a restaurant having someone bring me drinks while someone cooks my food? What IS IT you're trying to get at? I actually didn't read all your posts in a lot of detail, but I get the impression that you're trying to convince everyone that having servants is inherently evil or something.
To those who have servants and mistreat them - I would criticize them in the same way I would any employer who has mistreated his workforce, no matter what that work was. If you're a rich guy and can afford to pay people to do stuff for you, and they're willing to do it, and what you pay them is fair - then WHERE is the problem?
Isn't providing people with employment a good thing? If it's what they choose to do, then who are you to think of it as some unworthy profession? I've worked as service staff before, as a restaurant waiter, a barman, even a kitchenhand. When you're young and still in school, that kind of work is perfect - flexible times, decent tip opportunities - and a reference at the end if you do a good job. Personally, I think you see the word "servant" as another word for "slave" - this I can't agree with.
You see, here we go. "At the expense of others" - WHAT THE HELL ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT? They're not slaves! If they are doing such work and are underpaid for it, that's a separate issue - it doesn't mean that the very notion of someone doing the job is ridiculous. I like the fact that one day if I'm rich enough, I might be able to hire people willing to do certain jobs in my place - like cooking, cleaning...door opening is going quite far, but perhaps if I was THAT rich and there was THAT much unemployment in the area. I'd have thought some people would be glad of a job if they really needed it. I know I was when I needed it.
If you have the money, and there's someone willing to do the job you want them to do for a fair wage...what's the problem? And if you're gonna back and say something about low wages or poor conditions - those are separate issues. And they cannot act as a basis for getting rid of the idea of a "servant" altogether.
Really, I never expected so many people to attach such a negative connotation to the word servant - you do realise that it's slavery that needs to be addressed, right? And that most servants are doing perfectly legitimate paid jobs?
chinu
chinu
A villager was going with a cow, holding a chain which was tied around the cow's neck. By seeing this seen one guru asked the question to his students, the question was: Who is servant and who is boss ?
Students answered: The man is boss and the cow is servant. Guru smiled and said the students to just wait for some time. and after some time the seen was; The cow raned by pulling the chain from the hands of that man, and now that man was running behind the cow. and now the seen was looking like man is servant and the cow is boss.
Guru laughed and explained: Always try to be independent, its a great folly among people who think that they have made somebody their servant, but after some time in true they themself become their servant.
Now i think the title of the thread should be... Bosses - yes or no?
Chisti
Active Member
This is the kind of rationalizing that the previous poster was probably referring to.
nnmartin
Well-Known Member
that's true - the ego can justify virtually anything!
the only difference between slave and servant in the household is the concept of wages.
However, the servant is still a slave to his master as in OT days.
if he does not 'respect' him enough then he is fired and replaced by another person from the perceived 'lower orders' of humanity (sarcasm)
the only difference between slave and servant in the household is the concept of wages.
However, the servant is still a slave to his master as in OT days.
if he does not 'respect' him enough then he is fired and replaced by another person from the perceived 'lower orders' of humanity (sarcasm)
nnmartin
Well-Known Member
do you not see something inherently wrong in the situation that one man should be poor enough to have to hold your door open for you as the only way to survive?
Or would you feel that you deserved this kind of subservience due to your monetary advantage over him?
What do you base ANY of this on? Some employers are bad therefore nobody should be employed, is that what you're saying? If people are coerced into being servants, then of course it's bad - but what you're saying is that somehow ALL servants are being squashed, humiliated and mistreated, and being treated as slaves - the difference between a servant and a slave goes beyond wages, my ignorant friend.
A servant is no more a "slave" to his employer than I am to mine - I have to turn up for work before 08:30, I can't leave before 5.30pm, I get a fixed amount every month for those hours, busy or not during the day. I get allocated days off, I'm told what I should wear at work, I'm told how to act and convention tells me to show respect and loyalty to my employers - by your definition I'm also one of these slave/servant things.
Domestic work is just that...WORK. And if there's demand and people to fill that demand then it will always exist. You make the whole thing sound so sordid. Tell me specifically what is wrong with Mrs Jia (my cleaner) coming to my apartment twice a week to clean while I'm out at work, after having responded to an ad I placed locally looking for domestic help? Have I done wrong by her by giving her work and paying her for it? Nobody said she HAD to take the job. It was her choice.
This is absolutely ridiculous - what you're basically suggesting is that being rich is somehow inherently wrong. Of course it's bad that there are so many people so poor - but doing away with service isn't exactly going to solve that problem. Also, you make the assumption that all rich people will naturally be disrespectful or show disdain to the poor. That's your own prejudice and you should keep it to yourself mate. You make too many assumptions in many of your posts, I've noticed.
If a job as a doorman was adequately compensated, either with money alone, or with money, food and board - what is the big deal? It's just a job. If you don't want it, then don't! Who's forcing you to? It seems you're taking issues like mistreatment of workforce or underemployment and turning them into some kind of biased tirade against people with money.
Your original question was would you feel bad about having a servant. My question was simply too - what would be wrong with having a servant if they were treated with respect and compensated fairly - what world do you live in where all rich are disrepectful to all poor? Those rich who do show disrespect toward the poor are just arseholes, and that's an affliction they'll have to deal with for the rest of their cold and lonely existence.
Nashitheki
Hollawitta
Is the concept of fair compensation really so alien to people? Being paid enough to maintain an acceptable standard of living , and sure, if you wanna throw in extra benefits for them, why not? I just don't see why SO many people attach so many negative connotations to the idea of being a servant.
Frankly it's insulting too, to those people who either have been or still are domestic workers - it might not be a dream job but there are plenty of people who do such work and enjoy it. We can't all be taste testers at the chocolate factory, or travel correspondents, or pulitzer prize winning novelists!
Nashitheki
Hollawitta
"do you not see something inherently wrong in the situation that one man should be poor enough to have to hold your door open for you as the only way to survive?
Or would you feel that you deserved this kind of subservience due to your monetary advantage over him?"
I think your heart is in the right place.
Hopefully that kind of mindset will be eradicated soon.
Or would you feel that you deserved this kind of subservience due to your monetary advantage over him?"
I think your heart is in the right place.
Hopefully that kind of mindset will be eradicated soon.
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Nashitheki
Hollawitta
Here's a question for all those wealthy enough or else aspiring to be in a position to have servants - Would you prefer your servants call you Mr., Mrs., Miss, or by your first name in private as well as public ?
blackout
Violet.
Here's a side question.
Is it self aggrandizement that doctors expect to be referred to professionally
by their clients/patients as
"Dr. Soandso" ? (instead of Mr. Soandso, or simply "Bob")
I mean, their clients are PAYING them,
so they should be able to call them by their first name in public and private, no?
My servants call me by my first name in all circumstances.
Perhaps I'll change that when I become president.
Chisti
Active Member
Compensated means enough to keep you alive, or at least half-dead while you work.
I'm compensated, & I don't feel "half-dead" while I work.
If someone feels half dead on their job, they should find a new job.
Don't blame employers.
Chisti
Active Member
Tell that to sweatshop workers and child laborers.
There aren't any where I live.
Seriously, we ought not presume that all workers are downtrodden victims just because there are terrible conditions somewhere in the world.
Too many workers have the freedom to choose where they work & to advance in their profession, but they wallow in falsely perceived victimhood & oppression.