Servants - yes or no?

[Kathryn]

It doesn't seem to matter how many times you have pointed that out, he seems to ignore it every time.

I've actually been thinking of applying to a local maid service once both the kids are in school. It's a possibility.

I think it's a great job - and it can really keep you active!

 

[Kathryn]

The idea that some people should be entitled to luxury at the expense of others for whatever reason is something many will rationalize in detail but is obviously wrong.

How is working for an agreed-upon wage wrong?

If someone is PAYING for a service, it's not an entitlement.

 

[Kathryn]

Here's a question for all those wealthy enough or else aspiring to be in a position to have servants - Would you prefer your servants call you Mr., Mrs., Miss, or by your first name in private as well as public ?

My maids and my lawncare guys, etc. have always called me by my first name. I prefer it that way. After all, they are adults and so am I.

 

[Kathryn]

Of course it is wrong, because you are making someone else do what you should be doing yourself.

People have a certain obligation to look after themselves. This tends to operate within the personal space sphere. For instance, one should dress, wash and clean themselves, not have another do it for them.

Otherwise it is just slothfulness which encourages negativity.

and of course, just because you pay someone to do something does not make it right.

You seem to have fallen into the trap of self-justification here.

There is a principle that you simply don't grasp, and that is that time is money. And we all only have 24 hours in each day.

If I earn $50 an hour, and I cut that earning time down to do two hours of housework, then I just lost out on $100 that I could use to pay for books for school, or give to a charity, or whatever. If I can pay someone $10 an hour then I am ahead $80.

You may say, "Clean on your own time," but if I can pay someone else so that I can spend that very limited time after work, with my family or friends or doing something more meaningful to me than housework, then it's worth it to me to spend the money - which I've earned.

What on earth is wrong with that? My maid works during the day, and not sure if you realize this or not, but many maids don't work full time at their job. They choose maid service precisely BECAUSE the schedule is flexible and this job allows them to spend more time with their own families.

Everyone wins.

 

[nnmartin]

ok, so if the maid only works part time at $10/hr then how does she manage to support herself financially?

 

[Nashitheki]

Too many workers have the freedom to choose where they work & to advance in their profession, but they wallow in falsely perceived victimhood & oppression.

Especially here in America where the job market is booming like never before. All kinds of employment for everyone.

 

[Nashitheki]

ok, so if the maid only works part time at $10/hr then how does she manage to support herself financially?

Now really, should the gentry concern themselves with such ?

 

[Nashitheki]

My maids and my lawncare guys, etc. have always called me by my first name. I prefer it that way. After all, they are adults and so am I.

What about the chauffeur, cook, nanny, butler and the rest of the lackeys like those who fan away the heat when you're entertaining outside or carry you around on a litter when you're inspecting the grounds ?

Are they here in the states legally ?

 

[Revoltingest]

Especially here in America where the job market is booming like never before. All kinds of employment for everyone.

Even here in MI, with its higher than elsewhere unemployment rate, all people I know find work.
Sure it takes a little longer than before, but it's there.
And even unskilled illiterate guys work.
The will to work an honest day for an honest dollar matters most.
Don't like your job? Find another.
To feel trapped, captive or imprisoned means that one should change how one feels.

 

[Draka]

What about the chauffeur, cook, nanny, butler and the rest of the lackeys like those who fan away the heat when you're entertaining outside or carry you around on a litter when you're inspecting the grounds ?

Are they here in the states legally ?

Exceedingly rude.

 

[nnmartin]

not rude at all, and I think that was a very valid point.

Many servants come from south of the border because employers know that they can pay them less, treat them worse and threaten them with the authorities and visa status if the levels of subservience are not high enough.

 

[4consideration]

Martin,

How can you possibly think that is a valid point to that being directed at Kathryn. Have you read any of her posts, really?

I actually thought there was some sincerity on your part in this thread.

 

[Nashitheki]

Exceedingly rude.

Gee lady, lighten up, that post was made in jest. Have they no humor in Iowa ? However if you want to think of me as rude, then that's your bag.

My heart will always go out for hard working people and the downtrodden.

To whom does yours go out to ?

 

[Revoltingest]

Gee lady, lighten up, that post was made in jest. Have they no humor in Iowa ? However if you want to think of me as rude....

The written word can lack nuance when a poster is new, uses an uber-serious looking avatar, & eschews emoticons.
Your post struck me as likely snarky too. Slack ought be cut in both directions.

 

[nnmartin]

steady on old boy, a difference of opinion is no cause for a hissy fit!

 

[nnmartin]

Martin,

How can you possibly think that is a valid point to that being directed at Kathryn. Have you read any of her posts, really?

I actually thought there was some sincerity on your part in this thread.

anyone who supports this form of status quo must be prepared to take the flak.

Whether an individual poster treats their domestic staff badly or not is besides the point, as many people out in the real world do just this.

 

[nnmartin]

The author of the OP seems to think of himself as some sort of liberator, perhaps a modern Che Guevara. But I believe that if he/she had their way, that as they bask in their victory and find themselves in a servantless world - they may find that rather than incurring the wrath of the former masters, that armies of now jobless domestic workers seek them out to put them atop a pyre!

A modern day Che - yep that's me!

as for a servantless world that's a good thing surely.

The people won't be out of work - they will be performing more useful tasks, and those who are so rich as to have a fleet of domestics will no longer be able to maintain their positions of dominance and exploitation.

For a start, there will be a wage cap so the idea of having a door-opener or personal shoe polisher will be considered something as a quaint archaic joke.

Those days will be gone and we will move into the realm of progressive democracy.

 

[nnmartin]

Nmmartin - reality check - the world is not as simple as you think. And just because you've flicked through the communist manifesto a few times and stuck a few posters of Che or Lenin on your wall doesn't mean you now posess all the answers to the world's problems.

That's quite funny, but really my ideas about servants are more Maoist in origin.

Ever been thrown in prison for 2 days for saying the wrong thing about Taiwan in public? Thought not.

What makes you think you can go to a foreign country and tell them how things should be and why on Earth should China should bow down to your Western influenced political values?

Ever heard of the Morning Dragon Foundation? I founded it in China's Liaoning Province in 2006 to help bring free English tuition to poor children in the region. After being supported initially, we were shut down after a shift in local government.

and I take it that has some relevance to the debate on servants? :sarcastic

 

[LongGe123]

That's quite funny, but really my ideas about servants are more Maoist in origin.
What makes you think you can go to a foreign country and tell them how things should be and why on Earth should China should bow down to your Western influenced political values?
and I take it that has some relevance to the debate on servants? :sarcastic

Maoist? Wow, now I see why your words lack any logic at all. You know Mao himself had quite the army of domestic servants, right? Also, you know just about every "Maoist" leader in the world is or was responsible for hurrendous crimes against humanity, while not making life better in the slightest for any domestic worker.

About Taiwan - who says I was trying to force anyone to change their mind? I was merely pointing out a reality of Taiwan that the mainland has some difficulty accepting. Why don't you stop presuming you know more, and just embrace your ignorance.

Morning Dragon Foundation - I'm pointing out to you, my pseudo-socialist friend, that as you attempt to brand me as some kind of capitalist pig-dog exploiter of the masses while you champion the cause of "the people" - I'm actually out here in the world trying to make a difference.

 

[nnmartin]

What utterly retarded and deluded nonsense. A wage-cap? hahaha that's the most hilarious thing I've heard from you yet!

just for you, here is the link to a thread I made recently on this exact subject.

http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/2875529-post1.html

In this OP I proposed that we have a maximum wage cap of 100K/year.

I still think it to be a good idea - so please bump the thread if you like, and I'll join in again.