Sexual Abuse in religion

[idea]

FwdFwd: A documentary being pitched by a friend I went to BYU with. It’s about the sexual assault epidemic in utah that continues to get buried by the church and BYU.

You can vote for "chewed gum" to help her receive funding to finish the documentary.

2022 DocPitch

I have seen the above, it is why I left the Mormon church. I know it is a problem in many faiths. Why do you think that is?

 

[Kelly of the Phoenix]

Unhealthy views on sex seem to be traced back to dominance and ownership. I am a sex-repulsed asexual but I would legalize sex work in a heartbeat because the people who engage in it need rights.

 

[Dan From Smithville]

FwdFwd: A documentary being pitched by a friend I went to BYU with. It’s about the sexual assault epidemic in utah that continues to get buried by the church and BYU.

You can vote for "chewed gum" to help her receive funding to finish the documentary.

2022 DocPitch

I have seen the above, it is why I left the Mormon church. I know it is a problem in many faiths. Why do you think that is?

Large organizations with strong, centralized leadership, a trend towards male dominance and a desire to keep things internal for both power and publicity reasons seems to be fertile ground for covering up a problem like sexual abuse.

 

[exchemist]

FwdFwd: A documentary being pitched by a friend I went to BYU with. It’s about the sexual assault epidemic in utah that continues to get buried by the church and BYU.

You can vote for "chewed gum" to help her receive funding to finish the documentary.

2022 DocPitch

I have seen the above, it is why I left the Mormon church. I know it is a problem in many faiths. Why do you think that is?

It seems to me there is nothing unique about religion here. It's the abuse of power of some kind, to obtain sexual favours. It's as old as humanity itself. We've got cases going through the courts involving the police and also lots of horror stories about our members of Parliament. And we've recently had an exposé of the same thing in showbiz and in the music industry too. And in sport as well. It's everywhere, sad to say.

One problem in the churches is they tend to close ranks and hush up these scandals, whereas in many professions you are more likely to find that peers of the abuser will blow the whistle and call in the law. The churches - and sport - seem to me to have been particularly lacking in professionalism in the systems they have to report and stamp out corruption, including abuse. Too much of an amateur culture.

 

[Dan From Smithville]

It seems to me there is nothing unique about religion here. It's the abuse of power of some kind, to obtain sexual favours. It's as old as humanity itself. We've got cases going through the courts involving the police and also lots of horror stories about our members of Parliament. And we've recently had an exposé of the same thing in showbiz and in the music industry too. And in sport as well. It's everywhere, sad to say.

One problem in the churches is they tend to close ranks and hush up these scandals, whereas in many professions you are more likely to find that peers of the abuser will blow the whistle and call in the law. The churches - and sport - seem to me to have been particularly lacking in professionalism in the systems they have to report and stamp out corruption, including abuse. Too much of an amateur culture.

I have seen people on here claim that their particular religion prefers to handle accusations of abuse in house rather than involve the authorities and follow the law. That practice seems geared to cover up problems and fail the victims and the religion.

 

[pearl]

It seems to me there is nothing unique about religion here.

Right. It is rampart along secular society as well, think of the downfall of the US Boy Scouts.

 

[Dan From Smithville]

I have been formulating an hypothesis (I do not declare it to be unique or original) that organizations arise for certain reasons, but once they reach some critical size, the emphasis shifts some or a lot to the perpetuation of the organization rather than whatever reason the organization was original formed for. Anything that threatens the continuation of the organization is dealt with even in ways that contradict the very reasons for the existence of the organization. This can be exploited by anyone aware of the condition and even be a reason why some might seek power in the organization.

It is just a thought, but it seems to have significant real world evidence in support of it.

 

[KW]

FwdFwd: A documentary being pitched by a friend I went to BYU with. It’s about the sexual assault epidemic in utah that continues to get buried by the church and BYU.

You can vote for "chewed gum" to help her receive funding to finish the documentary.

2022 DocPitch

I have seen the above, it is why I left the Mormon church. I know it is a problem in many faiths. Why do you think that is?

It is a problem everywhere.

Public schools are worse.

 

[Dan From Smithville]

It is a problem everywhere.

Public schools are worse.

In what way do you consider them worse?

 

[KW]

In what way do you consider them worse?

Quantity of abuse occurrences.

 

[Dan From Smithville]

Quantity of abuse occurrences.

By teachers and administrators or just in general?

 

[exchemist]

I have seen people on here claim that their particular religion prefers to handle accusations of abuse in house rather than involve the authorities and follow the law. That practice seems geared to cover up problems and fail the victims and the religion.

..the Catholic church being an egregious recent example, indeed. Yes, that's what I'm saying: it's not so much that there is more due to religion, I suspect, but more the way the abuse is handled - or not - when uncovered.

Though, rather against what I was maintaining earlier, I do actually suspect that, in the case of the Catholic church specifically, a celibate, all-male priesthood is creates a sexual pressure-cooker, which is asking for trouble.

 

[KW]

By teachers and administrators or just in general?

According to Carol Shakeshaft in a report from Hofstra University:

close to 10 percent of children in public schools—more than 4.5 million—endure sexual abuse or misconduct by school employees

 

[Dan From Smithville]

..the Catholic church being an egregious recent example, indeed. Yes, that's what I'm saying: it's not so much that there is more due to religion, I suspect, but more the way the abuse is handled - or not - when uncovered.

I would say so too.

Though, rather against what I was maintaining earlier, I do actually suspect that, in the case of the Catholic church specifically, a celibate, all-male priesthood is creates a sexual pressure-cooker, which is asking for trouble.

My gut is to agree with this. But married people can and have engaged in sexual abuse too. Though I do suspect that the demands of priesthood may be too much for some in that pressure-cooker.

 

[Dan From Smithville]

According to Carol Shakeshaft in a report from Hofstra University:

close to 10 percent of children in public schools—more than 4.5 million—endure sexual abuse or misconduct by school employees

I found that report doing a quick Google search too.

That is a greater percentage than that reported for the Catholic church. But the Catholic church is not the only Christian church in the US. A comparison would need to be made between public schools and all Christian churches or the whole of any organized religion being used to make the comparison. Since the US is predominantly Christian, the proper comparison would be between US public schools and US Christian denominations as a whole. Is there evidence to support your claim that public schools have the greater incidence of sexual abuse in that comparison?

 

[Dan From Smithville]

According to Carol Shakeshaft in a report from Hofstra University:

close to 10 percent of children in public schools—more than 4.5 million—endure sexual abuse or misconduct by school employees

Is it more important to find the winner in an inglorious contest of which organization has the greatest sexual abuse record against children or to find ways to stop this abuse and covering up for abuse?

To me it matters that this exists and needs to be dealt with to protect children regardless of the nature of the organization involved.

 

[idea]

It seems to me there is nothing unique about religion here. It's the abuse of power of some kind, to obtain sexual favours. It's as old as humanity itself. We've got cases going through the courts involving the police and also lots of horror stories about our members of Parliament. And we've recently had an exposé of the same thing in showbiz and in the music industry too. And in sport as well. It's everywhere, sad to say.

One problem in the churches is they tend to close ranks and hush up these scandals, whereas in many professions you are more likely to find that peers of the abuser will blow the whistle and call in the law. The churches - and sport - seem to me to have been particularly lacking in professionalism in the systems they have to report and stamp out corruption, including abuse. Too much of an amateur culture.

I think there is something unique with religion here - it is a higher form of betrayal trauma.

Imagine being abused at home, but having strong faith and turning to prayer for comfort.

Now imagine abuse that comes from "God's servants" - no prayer for comfort, it is a betrayal of faith and belief in God in addition to betrayal of your physical body.

My experience involves kids abused by a high priest in the Mormon faith - abused for years and years and years. Authorities knew about this high priest - it ended his first marriage, and the first wife was blamed. They sealed him in the temple again telling lies to 2nd wife, and this guy was given support groups by untrained volunteers that were supposed to help - if wife just says their prayers, reads their scriptures, goes to the temple, everything should be fine - taught to fogive 70X70 - his work finally turned him in, hard-drives full of child porn - 18 years of videos he made on just one thumb drive. Through these years he served in bishopric, served overseeing children, served as high priest in many capacities while everyone knew about his problems - had faith in their predator support groups - his wife served as relief society president - was considered faithful for enduring well. He is in jail, they are still sealed for all eternity, and she is considered a good and faithful godfearing wife for it. In religious beliefs - you are rewarded for turning the other cheek 70X7, and staying quiet about it.

I have seen people on here claim that their particular religion prefers to handle accusations of abuse in house rather than involve the authorities and follow the law. That practice seems geared to cover up problems and fail the victims and the religion.

Not just fail the victims, but blame the victims. It is their fault to not fulfill their duties, and force the priesthood to drastic measures when the priesthood's needs are not taken care of.

Right. It is rampart along secular society as well, think of the downfall of the US Boy Scouts.

I think the boys scouts are handing everything well right now - they have amazing new policies and training, are actually supporting victims, the opposite of most organizations.

 

[idea]

Is it more important to find the winner in an inglorious contest of which organization has the greatest sexual abuse record against children or to find ways to stop this abuse and covering up for abuse?

To me it matters that this exists and needs to be dealt with to protect children regardless of the nature of the organization involved.

The "shame" culture around abuse - to be embarrassed to talk about it, social stigma around it - the moral purity culture is what is to blame. In the OP - "shewed gum" - that is what you are if not a virgin in the church - you are ABC gum. It would require a change in fundamental beliefs about purity culture - to healthy discussion on sex - to end it. Teach people how to masturbate, teach everyone to take care of their own needs as a healthy thing, a fundamental change in how everyone views "purity" is needed.

I mean - if you get in a fist fight, it is a temporary thing, it is over and done usually. The emotional harm for sexual abuse is from society's purity beliefs - that if you are not "pure" you are trash. Purity beliefs are the problem.

All gender stereotypes need to be removed to address the problem.

Unhealthy views on sex seem to be traced back to dominance and ownership. I am a sex-repulsed asexual but I would legalize sex work in a heartbeat because the people who engage in it need rights.

I would legalize sex work as part of a solution too.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

I think there is something unique with religion here - it is a higher form of betrayal trauma.

Imagine being abused at home, but having strong faith and turning to prayer for comfort.

Now imagine abuse that comes from "God's servants" - no prayer for comfort, it is a betrayal of faith and belief in God in addition to betrayal of your physical body.

My experience involves kids abused by a high priest in the Mormon faith - abused for years and years and years. Authorities knew about this high priest - it ended his first marriage, and the first wife was blamed. They sealed him in the temple again telling lies to 2nd wife, and this guy was given support groups by untrained volunteers that were supposed to help - if wife just says their prayers, reads their scriptures, goes to the temple, everything should be fine - taught to fogive 70X70 - his work finally turned him in, hard-drives full of child porn - 18 years of videos he made on just one thumb drive. Through these years he served in bishopric, served overseeing children, served as high priest in many capacities while everyone knew about his problems - had faith in their predator support groups - his wife served as relief society president - was considered faithful for enduring well. He is in jail, they are still sealed for all eternity, and she is considered a good and faithful godfearing wife for it. In religious beliefs - you are rewarded for turning the other cheek 70X7, and staying quiet about it.



Not just fail the victims, but blame the victims. It is their fault to not fulfill their duties, and force the priesthood to drastic measures when the priesthood's needs are not taken care of.



I think the boys scouts are handing everything well right now - they have amazing new policies and training, are actually supporting victims, the opposite of most organizations.

Yeah, your example is one case. You can find similar stories which doesn't involve religion.

 

[idea]

Yeah, your example is one case. You can find similar stories which doesn't involve religion.

Abuse by police get close. For those who were raised to have a strong faith in God, where security is tied to their faith, it is a new level of upheaval when abuse is tied to a belief system.