Sexual Abuse in religion

[idea]

All groups of adults working with children should be monitored.

And everyone - including clergy - should be mandated reporters. Protection of victims above protection of those who are mentally ill. ... It is a mental illness.

 

[KW]

The lgbtq community has done wonders to remove sexism and allow people to be defined on their mind and character rather than defined by their body. A beloved family member of mine who raised me is deformed - missing facial features... I grew up understanding it's not what you look like that counts.

Homosexual priests did over 80% of the abusing in the Catholic Church. The church has pretty much eliminated abuse and part of the cure was blocking those who have strong same sex attraction.

 

[Dan From Smithville]

All groups of adults working with children should be monitored.

I agree. There should be good vetting and oversight. Issues should be handled properly, sensibly, sensitively and openly with the rights of the accused and the victims given due consideration. I would not want to see an innocent person hung for crimes they did not commit either. And not just with children, but for adults that can be the victims of abuse too.

How universities, public and private, handle sexual abuse comes to mind too. Often, they want to handle it inhouse rather than include law enforcement or the courts. This is another example of trying to protect the institution at the expense of the ideals and people the institution exists to serve under and to serve. Those most often involved are adults, yet right at the cusp.

 

[Dan From Smithville]

I think that you are intuitive and well said.

Thank you. I appreciate the thoughts. It has been an idea roaming the halls of my mind for some time regarding religion and politics, but could be applied to any organization that has come to wield its power mostly for self-preservation over the ideals under which it was formed.

 

[Dan From Smithville]

Homosexual priests did over 80% of the abusing in the Catholic Church. The church has pretty much eliminated abuse and part of the cure was blocking those who have strong same sex attraction.

Can you post the references you are using to make this claim? One would think you were equating pedophilia to homosexuality. An unsupported claim.

 

[Dan From Smithville]

I realize I had unrealistic expectations of others when I "relied on arms of flesh". Low expectations lead to an end of anger for me. The Buddhist "empty boat" parable was very healing to me. We are all imperfect humans. Changing beliefs that no authority is needed for blessings, no authority is needed for salvation, no outside authority is needed for baptism, or anything - within Mormonism, women are not bishops, cannot bless, cannot lead, are forced to rely on others - that belief is crippling to abuse victims who are left without hope if those beliefs persist. Changing beliefs around authority, and claiming authority for yourself was the first step in healing for me. Separate "priests" from God - NOT from God - that was huge. An end of anger at God was start of claiming my own authority.

I think I understand what you are saying.

 

[Dan From Smithville]

I should have given title "organized religion", sorry, not a semantics expert - if there is a mod who can change title of thread?

I think most of us understand what you meant. I am new to this, but I can ask about a change like that.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Homosexual priests did over 80% of the abusing in the Catholic Church. The church has pretty much eliminated abuse and part of the cure was blocking those who have strong same sex attraction.

Not quite right. Child abusing priests did the abuse. That is not the same as being homosexual.

 

[Viker]

I know it is a problem in many faiths. Why do you think that is?

Entitlement emboldened by permitting unchecked religious authority.

 

[Clara Tea]

FwdFwd: A documentary being pitched by a friend I went to BYU with. It’s about the sexual assault epidemic in utah that continues to get buried by the church and BYU.

You can vote for "chewed gum" to help her receive funding to finish the documentary.

2022 DocPitch

I have seen the above, it is why I left the Mormon church. I know it is a problem in many faiths. Why do you think that is?

Adam and Eve were kicked out of Eden by God. They discovered that they were ashamed of nakedness, after that. This is one reason that I suspect that the forbidden fruit of knowledge was not an apple, but the fruit of carnal knowledge (sex). If so, God likely didn't want them to procreate or he would have many more people to take care of. This is about the same problem that people have with unfixed pet rabbits.

After leaving Eden, God told them to "go forth and procreate."

This was misinterpreted by the Catholic church as "have as many kids as you can." The real meaning is to not be ashamed of nudity while having sex.

The Catholic Church, in the Dark Ages (Black Plague era) required priests not to marry, so that the church (rather than the priest's family) would inherit (more mammon for them).

This ban on marriage was against the laws of God (remember....go forth and procreate....not abstain from sex).

This abstinence is against the laws of God and very very unnatural. This causes normal men to go crazy and rape little boys, and have sex scandals. This is why there was such a huge epidemic of sex scandals in the Catholic church.

The church sought to prevent bad press (they thought that it would harm the church). So, they hid the information, and insisted that their innocent rape victims remain silent. They moved the rapist priests to other parishes, where they would rape still more little boys.

Only recently have priests been able to be sued, and even as they are sued, the Catholic church takes every opportunity (such as bankruptcy) to evade the financial debts that they owe to their innocent victims. Apparently they love mammon (money) more than God.

If the churches would follow God, these sex scandals wouldn't happen, and priests and pastors would be normal and adjusted.

Of course, there are still errant pastors, such as Reverend Jimmy Swaggart, who was arrested in Lancaster, California, for hiring a prostitute. We cannot eliminate all sin in the world. But we can follow God's commandments and suggestions (found in the bible), and the world would be a better place.

 

[Clara Tea]

Not quite right. Child abusing priests did the abuse. That is not the same as being homosexual.

Since they did it with little boys, that is not very clear.

 

[Clara Tea]

That we may differ over the emphasis, does not in any way diminish the atrocity wherever it takes place or with whomever has initiated it. But I think it does not matter where the abuse stems from, whether a parent, teacher, respected friends or religious leader, the point is that people that are trusted and organizations that are trusted abuse that trust. Or facilitate the abuse of that trust.

But I do agree that how many of us are raised to see our religious institutions does make it seem that the breaking of trust there is individually unique. It also reflects how many of us seem to find ourselves equating a church organization as a part of God and thus some see that as no God to turn to for comfort. I can see that especially happening for young minds that haven't had the years of experience to come to greater understanding.

Personally, I have come not to equate churches and religious organizations as ordained extensions of God and perhaps that makes the difference. They are just groups of people with similar views and practices. In my understanding, God may not even be in some of them. It is practically impossible to know. Yet, even within those organizations are people that want to make things right, but are often outnumbered by those that don't care or don't want to rock the boat. That may be the biggest problem in such organizations. No longer knowing who you can trust.

The child abuse is the same no matter the source. But, the issue, at hand, is why are there so many cases of abuse in churches? Apparently the strict rules that the priests live by (abstinence) is what causes them to seek sexual satisfaction illegally with little boys.

It is possible that they are already interested in little boys when they become priests (and that might be an incentive for them to join the priesthood). Or, it might be that they are somehow lacking a male gene, and that causes them to study religion rather than party with women?

 

[Clara Tea]

And everyone - including clergy - should be mandated reporters. Protection of victims above protection of those who are mentally ill. ... It is a mental illness.

Yes, illegal activity (of any kind) should have mandated reports.

Furthermore, the churches think that they are doing a service to God (or the church) by hiding scandals and letting the victimization continue. Churches are not only a mandate by the law to report such crimes, they are also under a mandate by God not to prey on innocent victims.

 

[Clara Tea]

Entitlement emboldened by permitting unchecked religious authority.

True, but it goes deeper than that. The fact that they are mandated not to have sex, makes Catholics go crazy, sexually. It is against the laws of God "go forth and multiply."

 

[Clara Tea]

I should have given title "organized religion", sorry, not a semantics expert - if there is a mod who can change title of thread?

Isn't it just as bad in disorganized religion?

 

[Dan From Smithville]

The child abuse is the same no matter the source. But, the issue, at hand, is why are there so many cases of abuse in churches? Apparently the strict rules that the priests live by (abstinence) is what causes them to seek sexual satisfaction illegally with little boys.

It is possible that they are already interested in little boys when they become priests (and that might be an incentive for them to join the priesthood). Or, it might be that they are somehow lacking a male gene, and that causes them to study religion rather than party with women?

Not all churches have clergy that follow rules of celibacy as the priests and nuns do in the Catholic church. I do not know all the statistics regarding abuse by clergy, but it is my understanding that girls and women still remain the group most at risk.

I am not aware of a gene that is blocking the study of religion. While it would be useful to find some genetic markers in the portion of the population that exhibit pedophilic tendencies, it is a bit too early in the study of these things to draw any conclusions that would be useful in my opinion. While more unusual, there are women pedophiles too and that would indicate, though not exclude, that it has causes other than just the y chromosome.

Anything I have to say on the matter of the nature and origin of pedophilia would be purely speculation. What I do think is that sexual abuse of children and adults is horrible and criminal. Organizations should not be a shield to the perpetrators or vilify the victims to keep it quiet regardless of the underlying psychological drivers of those perpetrators or the impact on the organization.

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

FwdFwd: A documentary being pitched by a friend I went to BYU with. It’s about the sexual assault epidemic in utah that continues to get buried by the church and BYU.

You can vote for "chewed gum" to help her receive funding to finish the documentary.

2022 DocPitch

I have seen the above, it is why I left the Mormon church. I know it is a problem in many faiths. Why do you think that is?

Ignorance about sex resulting from dogma that never understood what it is to be human -- that's why.

People who grow up with healthy, realistic and honest understanding of sex, in both its procreative and its bonding functions, tend not to need to use violence to express themselves. They've learned that it's possible to make your desires clear to another person, and to recognize theirs -- and proceed comfortably from there...to either doing or not doing, whichever is right at the time.

 

[KW]

Can you post the references you are using to make this claim? One would think you were equating pedophilia to homosexuality. An unsupported claim.

Homosexual pedophilia is carried out by men with same sex attraction. Most of the victims were teen boys.

See below

There are no doubt many outstanding priests of a homosexual orientation who live chaste, celibate lives, but any evaluation of the causes and context of the current crisis must be cognizant of the fact that more than 80 percent of the abuse at issue was of a homosexual nature," - Robert Bennett

 

[KW]

Not quite right. Child abusing priests did the abuse. That is not the same as being homosexual.

They abused teen boys primarily.

Now that the Church is screening out individuals with strong homosexual attraction the abuse has nearly disappeared.

In the 60s the church assumed that same sex attraction would have no impact on the ability of a priest to remain celibate.

 

[Subduction Zone]

They abused teen boys primarily.

Now that the Church is screening out individuals with strong homosexual attraction the abuse has nearly disappeared.

In the 60s the church assumed that same sex attraction would have no impact on the ability of a priest to remain celibate.

Yes, they did. That does not necessarily mean that they are homosexual.. The key word that you ignored was "boys".