Shakta Discussion

[Fireside_Hindu]

I hope on of our resident Shaktas can help me.

I was given Diksha by a Vadakalai Sri Vaishnava. Vadakalai are one of the few Vaishnava philosophical schools where Devi (in the form of Lakshmi) is given equal status to Narayana. In my gradual process of leaning towards Shaktism, he told me of a Pancharatra school of thought where MahaLakshmi is supreme and incarnates as Saraswati, Lakshmi, and Kali.

Does anyone know about this? Or have any info on it?

I read a little bit in the Pancharatra School but it still felt like the predominant focus was on Narayan. The impression I got was that one sought Maha Lakshmi's grace to reach the lotus feet of Narayan. (It reminded me a bit like Catholics who appeal to the Virgin Mary to interceded on their behalf with Christ). I cold be wrong about this, but that was my initial impression. I will look into it. There is a MahaLakshmi Temple in Delaware so I'll see if their website mentions any kind of sampradaya or other lineage.

 

[Fireside_Hindu]

Okay, After digging a little here is what I found:

The philosophy of Lakshmi as supreme, independent deity is most fully fleshed out in Pancharatra school -- a kind of Tantric subsect of Vaishnavism, which propounds a decidedly Shakta approach to Lakshmi; that is, one that elevates Her to the status of Supreme Divinity. Kinsley explains:

"In the Pancharatra creation scenario, Vishnu remains almost entirely inactive, relegating the creative process to Lakshmi. ... Lakshmi alone acts, and the impression throughout the cosmogony is that She acts independently of Vishnu (although it is stated that She acts according to His wishes). ... The practical effect ... is that [Vishnu] becomes so aloof that Lakshmi dominates the entire Pancharatra vision of the divine. In effect, She acquires the position of the Supreme Divine Principle, the underlying reality upon which all rests, that which pervades all creation with vitality, will and consciousness."

The most important Pancharatra text is the Lakshmi Tantra, which -- among other things -- teaches us that Lakshmi both created and embodies the entire Universe (seen and unseen) out of a mere one-billionth fraction of Herself (14.3). Lakshmi here performs all of the acts that traditional Hinduism attributes to the great male gods, Brahma, Vishnu and Shiva. As Lakshmi Herself puts it:

"Inherent in the Principle of Existence, whether manifested or unmanifested, I am at all times the inciter, the potential in all things. I manifest Myself as the Creation, I occupy myself with activity when Creation begins functioning, and I ultimately dissolve Myself at the time of destruction. I alone send the Creation forth and again destroy it. I absolve the sins of the good. As Mother Earth to all beings, I pardon them all their sins. I am the Giver of Everything. I am the thinking process itself and I am contained in Everything." (50.65-67)

In the Lakshmi Tantra, Lakshmi (not Vishnu) is creator, maintainer, and destroyer; She is the sole object of devotion and meditation; She is the dispenser of grace; She is the bestower of liberation (50.131-132). And yet, for all of that, She retains Her fundamental association with fertility, abundance and well-being -- again, like Lajja Gauri, She is the "sap of life" that vitalizes all Creation; but here She is also said to be the supreme "sap of consciousness" that underlies the entire manifest world (50.110).

 

[StarryNightshade]

The philosophy of Lakshmi as supreme, independent deity is most fully fleshed out in Pancharatra school -- a kind of Tantric subsect of Vaishnavism, which propounds a decidedly Shakta approach to Lakshmi; that is, one that elevates Her to the status of Supreme Divinity. Kinsley explains:

"In the Pancharatra creation scenario, Vishnu remains almost entirely inactive, relegating the creative process to Lakshmi. ... Lakshmi alone acts, and the impression throughout the cosmogony is that She acts independently of Vishnu (although it is stated that She acts according to His wishes). ... The practical effect ... is that [Vishnu] becomes so aloof that Lakshmi dominates the entire Pancharatra vision of the divine. In effect, She acquires the position of the Supreme Divine Principle, the underlying reality upon which all rests, that which pervades all creation with vitality, will and consciousness."

The most important Pancharatra text is the Lakshmi Tantra, which -- among other things -- teaches us that Lakshmi both created and embodies the entire Universe (seen and unseen) out of a mere one-billionth fraction of Herself (14.3). Lakshmi here performs all of the acts that traditional Hinduism attributes to the great male gods, Brahma, Vishnu and Shiva. As Lakshmi Herself puts it:

"Inherent in the Principle of Existence, whether manifested or unmanifested, I am at all times the inciter, the potential in all things. I manifest Myself as the Creation, I occupy myself with activity when Creation begins functioning, and I ultimately dissolve Myself at the time of destruction. I alone send the Creation forth and again destroy it. I absolve the sins of the good. As Mother Earth to all beings, I pardon them all their sins. I am the Giver of Everything. I am the thinking process itself and I am contained in Everything." (50.65-67)

In the Lakshmi Tantra, Lakshmi (not Vishnu) is creator, maintainer, and destroyer; She is the sole object of devotion and meditation; She is the dispenser of grace; She is the bestower of liberation (50.131-132). And yet, for all of that, She retains Her fundamental association with fertility, abundance and well-being -- again, like Lajja Gauri, She is the "sap of life" that vitalizes all Creation; but here She is also said to be the supreme "sap of consciousness" that underlies the entire manifest world (50.110).

Okay...I think I could get behind that.

 

[kalyan]

Okay...I think I could get behind that.

I Bow to my mother Maha Lakshmi, mother of entire universe

adiyen Ramanuaja Daasa

 

[StarryNightshade]

What are some non-secret Devi mantras that y'all know? Mantras that one doesn't have to be a Shakta initiate to know or are otherwise common knowledge?

 

[Aupmanyav]

Devi mantras: https://www.google.co.in/search?q=d...ved=0ahUKEwiByM6csO7MAhULt48KHRyYCxwQ_AUIBygC

 

[Vinidra]

What are some non-secret Devi mantras that y'all know? Mantras that one doesn't have to be a Shakta initiate to know or are otherwise common knowledge?

It's my understanding that the "Om, (Deity Name) namaha" mantras are open to all. I think the Deities' pranam mantras may be, too. But I'm not entirely sure about either of these, and I feel certain it depends on the school. Not sure about the Gayatris of each Deity, either.

But TBH, I usually just chant some of Maa's names instead of doing mantras, so I'm probably the wrong person to listen to here, anyway.

 

[Jainarayan]

It's my understanding that the "Om, (Deity Name) namaha" mantras are open to all.

That's my understanding also, that is nama japa, not mantra japa. If I'm not mistaken mantra japa uses a bija and/or is given by a guru. Without the bija I don't understand how it is different than nama japa. But there's a lot I don't understand.

I think the Deities' pranam mantras may be, too.

So that's what those little 2 or 4 line verses are called? I recite them as part of my prayers, they give honor to the deities, and/or extol their virtues.

Not sure about the Gayatris of each Deity, either.

Me too. I see them listed all over the place as being used for prayers. Stephen Knapp has them listed such as:

"To Hayagriva, to increase courage and remove fear" (his transliteration leaves something to be desired).
Aum Vanishwaraye [sic] Vidmahe
Hayagrivaye [sic] Dhimahi
Tanno Hayagrivah Prachodayat

And then these: http://www.hindupedia.com/en/Gayatri_mantras_of_Several_Gods

So it seems they are almost encouraged to be used.

 

[Jainarayan]

Devi mantras: https://www.google.co.in/search?q=d...ved=0ahUKEwiByM6csO7MAhULt48KHRyYCxwQ_AUIBygC

Here are some pranam mantras in the same images format. https://www.google.co.in/search?q=d...AUIBygC#newwindow=1&tbm=isch&q=pranam+mantras

The only problem I have is when there is no English translation. I'd really prefer to know what I'm saying to the god/dess. I know it's supposed to be the sound energy that is important, but all the same...

Btw, I hope you realize that ocpd now requires me to turn them into a book of prayers and mantras, and it's your fault.

 

[Aupmanyav]

But I'm not entirely sure about either of these, and I feel certain it depends on the school. Not sure about the Gayatris of each Deity, either.

I do not think any school will object to saying 'namah' (bowing) to the deity. The same is true for Gayatris.

 

[Aupmanyav]

"To Hayagriva, to increase courage and remove fear" (his transliteration leaves something to be desired).
Aum Vanishwaraye [sic] Vidmahe, Hayagrivaye [sic] Dhimahi, Tanno Hayagrivah Prachodayat

Fear? Kindly note that Hinduism is not an Abrahamic religion. They have given the translation of Hayagriva Gayatri.

Om Vāṇīṡwarāya Vidmahe, Hayagrīvāya Dhīmahe, Tanno Hayagrīva Prachodayāt.

Om, Let me meditate on the God of learning, the horse-necked God may increase my intellect, and illuminate my mind.
This is the standard Gayatri format.

Vani: Speech, Vaniswaraya: God of learning, Haya: Horse, Griva: Neck.
Hayagrīva is the name of one of the avatar of Lord Vishnu. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hayagriva

Hayagriva (Khajuraho)

 

[Jainarayan]

Fear? Kindly note that Hinduism is not an Abrahamic religion. They have given the translation of Hayagriva Gayatri.

Om Vaniswaraya Vidmahe, Hayagrivaya Dheemahe, Tanno Hayagriva Prachodayat.

Om, Let me meditate on the god of learning,
Oh, God who has a horse face, give me higher intellect,
And let God Hayagreeva illuminate my mind.

Grandson, will correct it. Sorry.

Oh, I know... some translations pander to the western way of thinking. The line "To Hayagriva, to increase courage and remove fear" is from Stephen Knapp's site (I know, I know! please, nobody jump on me for referencing Stephen Knapp! ). To me the threesome of Saraswati, Hayagriva and Ganesha are the epitome of knowledge, learning and the preservation thereof.

 

[Vinidra]

I do not think any school will object to saying 'namah' (bowing) to the deity. The same is true for Gayatris.

I knew someone who knew more about it than me would come along and answer that. Thanks, Aup!

Starry, do you have any particular Goddesses you would like mantras for? Maa Lakshmi and/or others? I can dig up some of the ones I know of and occasionally use for you, if you'd like.

 

[Jainarayan]

A thought came to me, especially because these mantras https://www.google.co.in/search?q=d...hULt48KHRyYCxwQ_AUIBygC#imgrc=7sxgfNRXm2HAhM: are so publicly displayed (sorry for the sizes, it's not me), don't they contain bijas that are supposed to only be given by a guru and used by an initiate? I've seen oṁ aim saraswatyaī namaḥ all over the place, but I'm leery of using it. I use oṁ srī saraswatyaī namaḥ for nāma or pranāma

Spoiler: Big pictures of the mantras

 

[Aupmanyav]

Many people will say that. If Gurus were not to give the 'bija mantras', how would they have their importance (and in some cases money too)? I do not value the intermediary between me and my deity very much and would go forth bravely without any fear. However, I consider 'bijas' to be the remnants of sounds from human stone age when we danced around fire to the beat of sticks on tree trunks after a successful pig hunt. Hum ho, ho ho. Hear the beat? But then, I am an 'advaitist' and an atheist.

A simple way to reduce the size of images: Copy the image, post it in Word 2007, reduce size, crop portions if you want to, copy, post it in RF and save. True geek that I am (Caution: won't work in all the cases but no harm in trying).

 

[निताइ dasa]

A thought came to me, especially because these mantras https://www.google.co.in/search?q=devi+mantras&newwindow=1&rlz=1C1LENP_enIN576IN576&espv=2&biw=1455&bih=705&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiByM6csO7MAhULt48KHRyYCxwQ_AUIBygC#imgrc=7sxgfNRXm2HAhM: are so publicly displayed (sorry for the sizes, it's not me), don't they contain bijas that are supposed to only be given by a guru and used by an initiate? I've seen oṁ aim saraswatyaī namaḥ all over the place, but I'm leery of using it. I use oṁ srī saraswatyaī namaḥ for nāma or pranāma

Spoiler: Big pictures of the mantras

Well traditionally, the bija mantras can only be chanted by those who have upanayanam (sacred thread) and are Brahmins (by qualities). This is a verdict of all the traditional schools of Vedanta. If one who does not understand the power of these bija mantras and chants them improperly (because they have to be chanted in proper meter and tone) can do more harm than benefit. It is because these bija mantras directly invoke the diety, so one has to be very pure and chant them in the proper way. It is so sad, you see people everywhere showcasing mantras like the Gayatri even in the most dirtiest places.That is why the bijas mantras (like Gayatri) are passed from father to son, or guru to student often secretly. However the Lord's Name, has not such rules. Everyone is qualified to call upon the Lord's Name. That is why Lord Chaitanya Himself has said:

namanam akari bahuda nija sarvashaktis tatrarpita, niyamita smarane na kalah

"Oh Lord, you have manifested many names, into which you have put all your energies and power. Furthermore there are no rules nor times regarding the remembering of these Names"

 

[Jainarayan]

Well traditionally, the bija mantras can only be chanted by those who have upanayanam (sacred thread) and are Brahmins (by qualities). This is a verdict of all the traditional schools of Vedanta. If one who does not understand the power of these bija mantras and chants them improperly (because they have to be chanted in proper meter and tone) can do more harm than benefit. It is because these bija mantras directly invoke the diety, so one has to be very pure and chant them in the proper way. It is so sad, you see people everywhere showcasing mantras like the Gayatri even in the most dirtiest places.That is why the bijas mantras (like Gayatri) are passed from father to son, or guru to student often secretly. However the Lord's Name, has not such rules. Everyone is qualified to call upon the Lord's Name. That is why Lord Chaitanya Himself has said:

namanam akari bahuda nija sarvashaktis tatrarpita, niyamita smarane na kalah

"Oh Lord, you have manifested many names, into which you have put all your energies and power. Furthermore there are no rules nor times regarding the remembering of these Names"

That's what I thought. I for one would not chant a bija mantra and expect any benefit. There are bhajans that use them, but in that case, I think they are just lyrics in a song and have no meaning. The gāyatrī mantra is another one that is contentious. I see so many writings that say anyone can chant it nowadays, as well as the mahāmṛtyuñjaya mantra.

I myself chant them, not as japa, but during prayers, and I haven't experienced anything negative. Have I reaped any benefits from them? I don't know, maybe not. Maybe in that case they are just prayers and words in Sanskrit, instead of English or Hindi or Italian, or some other language used to talk to the gods, but I don't know. One thing I do know, or rather, I feel, is that if they are used as prayers, they should be chanted or spoken with proper intention.

I'll freely admit that I have been one of those people who felt that almost anything is OK, but I'm kind of changing that thinking. Even the Saguna Mantra for Japa page says not to use one of Kālīmā's mantras:

"OM Sri Maha Kalikayai Namah" (Prostrations to Mother Kali)

Kali is that divine aspect which is responsible for the destruction and eradication of negative qualities in this world. She is the transformative power of Divinity , which dissolves the individual into cosmic union. Maha Kali is one of the most fearsome of all the expressions of the Divinity. Because of the intensity of her purgative nature, very few people are initiated to this Mantra.

The bold is mine, and I'll bet people do use it anyway.

 

[Aupmanyav]

.. and I haven't experienced anything negative.

Because of the intensity of her purgative nature, very few people are initiated to this Mantra.

We have a saying in Hindi - "Hāth kangan ko ārsi kyā" (Hath - hand, Kangan - bracelet, Arsi - mirror', When you have the bracelet on your wrist, you do not need a mirror to see it' - meaning 'no further proof is required'). Why do you think that the mantras are going to be harmful when you yourself say that you have not experienced any negative effect? I agree, one may not realize the full benefit if one does not understand the true import of the mantra, the philosophy behind it. The mantra "OM Sri Maha Kalikayai Namah" is known to hundreds of millions people in India and is chanted by them.

 

[निताइ dasa]

The gāyatrī mantra is another one that is contentious. I see so many writings that say anyone can chant it nowadays, as well as the mahāmṛtyuñjaya mantra.

Yeah, I'm not sure where it is coming from, but traditionally in Vedanta those mantras are chanted by a very strict group of society. I know some Hindu sects (like Arya Samajis) reject this, and allow everyone to chant Gayatri. Can't say I agree, but...

One thing I do know, or rather, I feel, is that if they are used as prayers, they should be chanted or spoken with proper intention.

I agree here. I personally don't feel qualified to chant the Bija Mantras (except for maybe Lord Nitai's Bija, which is what I use when I offer bhoga to the Lord). I guess, if it is spoken with Love, then the Lord will accept.

 

[Jainarayan]

Why do you think that the mantras are going to be harmful when you yourself say that you have not experienced any negative effect?

Oh, I don't. I believe the gods have been more than good to me. I was just being facetious because there is a lot of superstition one can read about. My comment was a jab at that.

I agree, one may not realize the full benefit if one does not understand the true import of the mantra, the philosophy behind it. The mantra "OM Sri Maha Kalikayai Namah" is known to hundreds of millions people in India and is chanted by them.

No doubt. Here in the west people have very skewed ideas of the gods. I can't tell you how many times I've wanted to throw something at the tv (I know, I must stop watching The History Channel ) when they say something absolutely, pathetically and abysmally stupid about the gods, especially Ma Kali. She is greatly misunderstood, and thought of only as a terror. In that regard there are too many people (non-Hindu at that) too eager to invoke her for not-so-nice things. Well, I think things come back on the person... if they don't know what they're doing, it could backfire on them.

A brief case-in-point is my sister-in-law who fancies herself a bruja ('witch', in Spanish). She's cast spells on people (or so she said) that backfired seriously on her. Is this possible? I don't know, but I'd rather not put it to the test and put out a hit on someone by invoking Ma Kali to do the job.