Shame on US capital punishment

[Ciscokid]

The chances of someone escaping from a high security prison are very slim. If they were to escape you simply try to capture them.

This has happened and they've killed people already in the process, murderers have killed people in jail as well.

 

[Mister_T]

I didn't know Juveniles were put to death. I doubt all those in favor of capital punishment would agree over this issue.

I didn't know that either (at least not in present day). That is something I am certainly not in favor of.

The chances of someone escaping from a high security prison are very slim. If they were to escape you simply try to capture them.

What if you capture them too late? Or what if they're released due to our faulty justice system? Cisco remembers this story.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/17739868/

 

[McBell]

I didn't know that either (at least not in present day). That is something I am certainly not in favor of.

[SIZE=+1]The death penalty is forbidden in all states for those under the age of 18 at the time of their crime following the Supreme Court's ruling in Roper v. Simmons (2005) [/SIZE]<-----link[SIZE=+1]
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[Mathematician]

Thankfully the Supreme Court prevailed in the search for reason.:sarcastic

How can our society oppose torture and not the death penalty? Even with our eroding sense of liberty and justice in this country, we still believe, largely, native criminals shouldn't be tortured, even murderers and rapists. I just don't understand the reason behind wanting anyone dead. Revenge is just as good as a reason to build an arguement on as greed.

Ozzie, I don't think America leads in the Western perspective at all. We still champion capitalism above community compassion, war above peace, sword above pen. Compared to the rest of the industrilized world, the United States is quite hostile. This may be the contributing factor to why my country insists on its wars and deadly sentences.

 

[Ciscokid]

Thankfully the Supreme Court prevailed in the search for reason.:sarcastic

How can our society oppose torture and not the death penalty? Even with our eroding sense of liberty and justice in this country, we still believe, largely, native criminals shouldn't be tortured, even murderers and rapists. I just don't understand the reason behind wanting anyone dead. Revenge is just as good as a reason to build an arguement on as greed.

Ozzie, I don't think America leads in the Western perspective at all. We still champion capitalism above community compassion, war above peace, sword above pen. Compared to the rest of the industrilized world, the United States is quite hostile. This may be the contributing factor to why my country insists on its wars and deadly sentences.

Torture and the death penalty are two very different things, if you're not acutely aware of this then you'll probably add little to this discussion.

 

[The Seeker]

[SIZE=+1]The death penalty is forbidden in all states for those under the age of 18 at the time of their crime following the Supreme Court's ruling in Roper v. Simmons (2005) [/SIZE]<-----link[SIZE=+1]
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Thanks for the link, I wasn't aware of this. I still find it hard to believe it took until 2005 for the Supreme Court to decide this.

 

[Mathematician]

Torture and the death penalty are two very different things, if you're not acutely aware of this then you'll probably add little to this discussion.

I never said they weren't. The death penalty is much worse and should be looked down upon even more vigorously by society. There is no "good" way to kill, especially when it's preventable.

There's a story in the news that addresses this very topic. http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/19418891/

 

[Caina]

"What? The land of the free, whoever told you that was your enemy"

 

[mr.guy]

[mrt]What if you capture them too late? [/quote]
What if, what if, what if?

I think it's usefull to contemplate where the line stands between a deterrence from crime and prevention from all harm. It strikes me pretty weird that we should kill criminals because they might escape and the hero might not get to the baddie before he gets the irresistible urge to commit mass murder.

Do you not think it strange to go to such extreme lengths to insure that a past murderer doesn't repeat his crime? What exactly are we buying here?

It may not be quite the bargain it's dressed up to be.

One would assume that some utility comes from imprisoning and executing people. While american policy seems heavily centered on retributive response, can it be said to really work that well?

Or what if they're released due to our faulty justice system?

What if innocent people are "put down" due to your faulty justice system?

Torture and the death penalty are two very different things, if you're not acutely aware of this then you'll probably add little to this discussion

Does the difference invalidate a relationship?

"What? The land of the free, whoever told you that was your enemy"

I'm pretty sure people who listen to rage against the machine aren't allowed to use the interweb.

 

[McBell]

America pretends to be the leader in world affairs from a Western perspective. Yet Americans sanction state executions in the 21st century. What a joke that makes of American leadership. Anyone living in a state free from the scum of capital punishment is more free than any American can imagine. Freedom is a joke in an America that espouses and professes freedom whilst killing those who over indulge.

What influence has America's preference for killing her own had in declining American prestige world-wide? On that score, from a civilised perspective America is retarded.

"Fiat justitia, ruat coelum."

 

[Caina]

I'm pretty sure people who listen to rage against the machine aren't allowed to use the interweb.

I'm pretty sure all teh interwebs are belong to us

 

[Yerda]

Where did Kadzbiz mention public hangings? We're addressing captial punishment.

That's what I'm addressing.

 

[Dr. Nosophoros]

I don't "want" anyone dead but to me there is a line, if you cross it, then you have ceased to be a human animal and need to be removed from society, the quickest and most expedient way is through violence, courts are courts, papers are papers bureaucracy and what not, stamps etc. that is the law and as most of us know the printed "law" rarely serves Lady justice. Sometimes violence is necessary, it's part of our animal makeup.

 

[Mister_T]

It strikes me pretty weird that we should kill criminals because they might escape and the hero might not get to the baddie before he gets the irresistible urge to commit mass murder.

Actually, I'm more concerned with them getting out with our screwed up "justice" system....an example of this is in the link I provided earlier.

 

[mr.guy]

Actually, I'm more concerned with them getting out with our screwed up "justice" system....an example of this is in the link I provided earlier.

I see. So the penal system is ultimately responsible for anyone who reoffends?

I'm always amazed that americans, with such a high prison population, are still convinced that not enough people are behind bars; or is the death penalty a response to this?

 

[Fragmentia]

I'm always amazed that americans, with such a high prison population, are still convinced that not enough people are behind bars; or is the death penalty a response to this?

I'm sorry, that statement (question?) was a little confusing. Are you suggesting that Americans should shun the death penalty simply because it would leave more criminals behind bars, therefore making the justice system appear more successful by most citizens' standards? Or is the product of accomplishment determined by number of persons executed?

As I'm sure you're aware, some of the more publicized state policies favour life sentences (Texas has the 'three strikes' protocol, for instance), and the capital punishment system seems to take a long time (almost a life sentence in itself) to follow through with an actual execution, after sentencing.

Has it occurred to any of us that perhaps the lengthy wait period is not a result of syringe shortages? Question being - is it a response to the disdain with which many regard the death penalty, or a tactic to hold more "dead men walking" behind bars. Perhaps more effective, as most Americans know at any given time who is "in queue" for execution.

 

[mr.guy]

Are you suggesting that Americans should shun the death penalty simply because it would leave more criminals behind bars, therefore making the justice system appear more successful by most citizens' standards? Or is the product of accomplishment determined by number of persons executed?

No one could be more baffled than i. What security is actually gained by execution is beyond my scope.

...and the capital punishment system seems to take a long time (almost a life sentence in itself) to follow through with an actual execution, after sentencing.

Of course it seems like a life sentence; they are dead at the end of it, no?

Sorry for more questions, but i'm afraid you've granted me far too much credit regarding my knowledge of the american penal system. How long, on average, does an inmate sit on death row?

Perhaps more effective, as most Americans know at any given time who is "in queue" for execution.

So, it has proven itself as an effective deterrent?

 

[Mister_T]

I see. So the penal system is ultimately responsible for anyone who reoffends?

The penal system is repsonsible for not containing a threat to society. If people (like the six year old boy in that article) are harmed or killed due to their irresponsibilty, then they need to pay for it.

I'm always amazed that americans, with such a high prison population, are still convinced that not enough people are behind bars; or is the death penalty a response to this?

I've never heard of Americans being quoted as saying that "they're not enough people behind bars."

However, even that is something that is an American slogan (and I use that term loosely), that is still not the problem. The problem is that they're putting the wrong people behind bars.

 

[Booko]

America pretends to be the leader in world affairs from a Western perspective. Yet Americans sanction state executions in the 21st century. What a joke that makes of American leadership. Anyone living in a state free from the scum of capital punishment is more free than any American can imagine. Freedom is a joke in an America that espouses and professes freedom whilst killing those who over indulge.

Well, that's an interesting overgeneralization.

Were you aware that there are states in the U.S. that have never practiced execution from the time they were settled? I grew up in one such state (Michigan) and we were always taught to be proud that our state was founded as one of the 5 Midwestern states where capital punishment was not practiced nor considered ethical.

You also seem to have confused our federal gov't and certain state gov'ts with the American people.

Perhaps I should criticize you for some beknighted policy of your gov't and blame it all on you personally.

Um...no...I think I'll go drive Eibhlin to dance instead....see ya!

What influence has America's preference for killing her own had in declining American prestige world-wide? On that score, from a civilised perspective America is retarded.[/quote]

 

[Booko]

Until you are the victim, the brother or sister of a victim, the father or mother of a victim, the son or daughter of a victim (and so on) who suffered a horrendous barbaric act of a recalcitrant offender, you will probably never believe in capital punishment.

Some of us are, and still don't believe in it.

Especially in the obvious lopsided way in which it's applied.

I could see my way, maybe, to capital punishment for something as major as, say, the Oklahoma City bombing. Not much else.

I think it unlikely I will ever be allowed to sit on a jury panel in a capital case.