Shi'a Muslim and Bahai Only: In What Type of Return (Rajat) of Prophets and Imams do you believe?

[spirit_of_dawn]

And this only shows your ignorance. This is the original Arabic:

الإرشاد 2 378 فصل ..... ص : 378
روى الحسن بن محبوب عن علي بن أبي حمزة عن أبي بصير عن أبي عبد الله ع قال لا يخرج القائم ع إلا في وتر من السنين سنة إحدى أو ثلاث أو خمس أو سبع أو تسع


Get an Arab to translate it for you. The translator left out a small word which translates to "but" meaning this was the original:

[Al-Ḥasan b. Maḥbūb reported on the authority of ‘Alī b. Abī Ḥama, on the authonty of Abū Baṣīr, on the authority of Abū ‘Abd Allāh (Ja‘far al-Ṣādiq), peace be on him:]
(Ja‘far al-Ṣādiq) said: “The one who will rise (al-qā’im) will not come forth BUT in an odd year: one, three, five seven or nine.”

You thought you exposed such a big conspiracy, but you only exposed that the Bab that the Baha'is claim is the Mahdi, appeared in the wrong year making him a failure.

Have a good day.

 

[loverofhumanity]

The thing here is there are people with an insincere agenda and with thorough investigation exposes them as such. Look at all the false accusations against Momen. Horrendous considering there IS a non Baha'i source translated by a Lecturer In Arabic and Islamic Studies who gives a qualified translation that upholds what Momen has stated in his book and exposes these people attacking him as frauds and those willing to hang an innocent person without a thought. Those who lie and those who follow blindly liars are the same but have been exposed here as having an agenda against Momen and the Baha'i Faith. These people and what they say and claim should never be taken seriously after this gross injustice against an innocent person and the Baha'i Faith and they should apologise but don't wait for that as they are not sincere and would never admit it if they made a mistake even when exposed as clearly as this.

 

[spirit_of_dawn]

So you are saying Mojan Momen, a self proclaimed Baha'i scholar who understands Arabic, uses a flawed translation without double checking it. Now why don't I find that strange...

Don't even bother playing the victim. The original Arabic there is for all to see. Baha'is are clearly propagating a wrong translation for their own gain. THE BAB CAME IN THE WRONG YEAR. PROPHECY FAILED. BAHA'I CLAIMS FAILED.

have a good day

 

[loverofhumanity]

Shoghi clearly realized that Baha'u'llah's statements were wrong and tried to justify them by attacking the translation, but that didn't solve the issue and made it even worse. Yet, here we have a Baha'i boy claiming the contrary. I'm sorry but I can't argue with someone who doesn't even accept the words of his own so called infallible leaders.

Have fun

There is so much beauty in the world. So much good. So many wonderful truths yet to be found and implemented. Why on earth waste the precious time of your life just opposing?

I spend my time on positive things like spreading hope that we can and will build a better world. I suppose we need people to tear down and make the old world of negativeness and cheap shots look bad and you're doing a good job.

But the world and its people's are suffering and need a solution not just silly banter. The age of childish opposition is coming to an end. We need people who want to serve humanity not just quarrel. Let's teach our children and youth virtues and make them better people. Let's concentrate on supporting one another. Let's ask what we can do to help. Let's be positive.

Do something positive and spread some good vibes and unite people. Just taking cheap shots achieves nothing but make you more negative.

Now is the age and hope of building a better world. Join in and build it with us instead of just criticising.

 

[InvestigateTruth]

They are liars. I did some investigating and look what I came up with.

You mean THIS SOURCE don't you?????

The Year in whiCh The Qā’im will arise.
As for the exact year and day on which the one who will rise (al-qā’im), peace be on him and his fathers, rises, there have been handed down reports concerning that on the authority of truthful men.
[Al-Ḥasan b. Maḥbūb reported on the authority of ‘Alī b. Abī Ḥama, on the authonty of Abū Baṣīr, on the authority of Abū ‘Abd Allāh (Ja‘far al-Ṣādiq), peace be on him:]
(Ja‘far al-Ṣādiq) said: “The one who will rise (al-qā’im) will not come forth in an odd year: one, three, five seven or nine.”

PAGE 517

This is an original source NOT a Baha'i Book actually nothing to do with Baha'i.

It took me a while to track down their LIE amidst other LIES but eventually found this and Momen's claim is LEGITMATE AND TRUTH and the other rubbish read on a site which spreads rubbish is fully contradicted in this Book which clearly says NOT in an odd year.

We don't have to resort to,lies like other websites do. We can show our legitimacy without having to stoop that low. Yet they try to prove we are wrong by spreading lies.

And this translation supports the views of the Baha'is so to say Momen lied when you can go read this for yourself is an INJUSTICE. This book confirms the Baha'i claim and Momen's book as accurate. No Baha'i is changing anything here. The book itself says not in an odd year so please enough of false accusations for quoting what is in the original. Momen only quoted from an authoritative translation.

I think it depends on the Arabic accent.
For example in 2:13,

وَإِذَا قِيلَ لَهُمْ آمِنُوا كَمَا آمَنَ النَّاسُ قَالُوا أَنُؤْمِنُ كَمَا آمَنَ السُّفَهَاءُ أَلَا إِنَّهُمْ هُمُ السُّفَهَاءُ وَلَٰكِن لَّا يَعْلَمُونَ


The word أَلَا is translated as 'truely', 'surely'.

If this is the word in the hadith, then

The hadith can be translated as:

"The qaim doesn't appear, surely in an odd year. "


the translation that Momen is used is correct.
But in 2:9,


يُخَادِعُونَ اللَّهَ وَالَّذِينَ آمَنُوا وَمَا يَخْدَعُونَ إِلَّا أَنفُسَهُمْ وَمَا يَشْعُرُونَ

The word إِلَّا is translated as 'but', 'except'.

If this is the word in the Hadith, then it would be translated as:

"The qaim does not appear except in an odd year"

The thing is that, just like Quran, the accents were probably added later.

 

[loverofhumanity]

I think it depends on the Arabic accent.
For example in 2:13,

وَإِذَا قِيلَ لَهُمْ آمِنُوا كَمَا آمَنَ النَّاسُ قَالُوا أَنُؤْمِنُ كَمَا آمَنَ السُّفَهَاءُ أَلَا إِنَّهُمْ هُمُ السُّفَهَاءُ وَلَٰكِن لَّا يَعْلَمُونَ


The word أَلَا is translated as 'truely', 'surely'.

If this is the word in the hadith, then

The hadith can be translated as:

"The qaim doesn't appear, surely in an odd year. "


the translation that Momen is used is correct.
But in 2:9,


يُخَادِعُونَ اللَّهَ وَالَّذِينَ آمَنُوا وَمَا يَخْدَعُونَ إِلَّا أَنفُسَهُمْ وَمَا يَشْعُرُونَ

The word إِلَّا is translated as 'but', 'except'.

If this is the word in the Hadith, then it would be translated as:

"The qaim does not appear except in an odd year"

The thing is that, just like Quran, the accents were probably added later.

Thanks very much for that clarification. God bless you and all people who are fair and just. I thought it was the translation because the translator of the Irshad above is an expert so I doubted he would have made such a huge error. I can accept that different translators understand different accents.

Momen is not guilty of these accusations levelled against him and that should be clear now to everyone.

 

[spirit_of_dawn]

I think it depends on the Arabic accent.
For example in 2:13,

وَإِذَا قِيلَ لَهُمْ آمِنُوا كَمَا آمَنَ النَّاسُ قَالُوا أَنُؤْمِنُ كَمَا آمَنَ السُّفَهَاءُ أَلَا إِنَّهُمْ هُمُ السُّفَهَاءُ وَلَٰكِن لَّا يَعْلَمُونَ


The word أَلَا is translated as 'truely', 'surely'.

If this is the word in the hadith, then

The hadith can be translated as:

"The qaim doesn't appear, surely in an odd year. "


the translation that Momen is used is correct.
But in 2:9,


يُخَادِعُونَ اللَّهَ وَالَّذِينَ آمَنُوا وَمَا يَخْدَعُونَ إِلَّا أَنفُسَهُمْ وَمَا يَشْعُرُونَ

The word إِلَّا is translated as 'but', 'except'.

If this is the word in the Hadith, then it would be translated as:

"The qaim does not appear except in an odd year"

The thing is that, just like Quran, the accents were probably added later.

Oh God learn some damn Arabic before making comments and making yourself look stupid:

The word ألا used in the first verse reads as "Alaa" but the word in the second one reads "Ella" They have two different meanings. These words have nothing to do with accents because using one in place of the other makes the Arabic sentence grammatically wrong.

Thanks very much for that clarification. God bless you and all people who are fair and just. I thought it was the translation because the translator of the Irshad above is an expert so I doubted he would have made such a huge error. I can accept that different translators understand different accents.

Momen is not guilty of these accusations levelled against him and that should be clear now to everyone.

Yeah thank him for another failed justification

 

[InvestigateTruth]

Oh God learn some damn Arabic before making comments and making yourself look stupid:

The word ألا used in the first verse reads as "Alaa" but the word in the second one reads "Ella" They have two different meanings. These words have nothing to do with accents because using one in place of the other makes the Arabic sentence grammatically wrong.




Yeah thank him for another failed justification

It doesn't matter.
If the qaim was to appear in an odd year, this was fulfilled by Baha'u'llah. If the Qaim was not supposed to appear in an odd year, this was fulfilled by the Bab.

Too bad, you just cannot refute Baha'i faith. Try harder! Good luck.

 

[spirit_of_dawn]

It doesn't matter.
If the qaim was to appear in an odd year, this was fulfilled by Baha'u'llah. If the Qaim was not supposed to appear in an odd year, this was fulfilled by the Bab.

Too bad, you just cannot refute Baha'i faith. Try harder! Good luck.

You poor kid. Since it is evident that the Baha'i claim has failed miserably, now you have to come up with a new scheme: Baha'u'llah is the new Qa'im. Don't even try...

 

[InvestigateTruth]

You poor kid. Since it is evident that the Baha'i claim has failed miserably, now you have to come up with a new scheme: Baha'u'llah is the new Qa'im. Don't even try...

It seems you are not familiar with the Shia Hadithes. When Qaim rises after a long time, He disappears again. Then He appears again.
The first appearence of Qaim is fulfilled by the Bab. And when the Bab was Martyred in the 7th year of His revelation, after Him, Bahaullah appeared, fulfilling the Prophecies.
And also remember, when any of the 12 Imams, were martyred, the term ' disappearence ' was used for them, according to a Hadith in Alkafi.
I have already posted these Hadithes. Seems like you missed them.

Try harder, and never get frustrated.
Goodluck

 

[spirit_of_dawn]

It seems you are not familiar with the Shia Hadithes. When Qaim rises after a long time, He disappears again. Then He appears again.
The first appearence of Qaim is fulfilled by the Bab. And when the Bab was Martyred in the 7th year of His revelation, after Him, Bahaullah appeared, fulfilling the Prophecies.
And also remember, when any of the 12 Imams, were martyred, the term ' disappearence ' was used for them, according to a Hadith in Alkafi.
I have already posted these Hadithes. Seems like you missed them.

Try harder, and never get frustrated.
Goodluck

Seems like you are delusional and like making things up.