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Shia Muslims only: The validity of Hadithes
- Thread starter InvestigateTruth
- Start date
muhammad_isa
Veteran Member
I don't like ANY of the divisions, and I'm sure that Muhammad, peace be with him, wouldn't have liked it either..
Division is caused by exaggerating details thereby creating dogma .. or by following one's family or nation's dogma for example..
Allah says in the Qur'an:
"Mankind has split his religion into sects, each one rejoicing in its tenets"
satan is our enemy .. he only wishes to cause emity between us .. mankind would be better off remembering Almighty God IN CONGREGATION and not be so busy in constructing luxurious mosques for their tribe/sects.
But hey .. it's not going to happen is it!
Union
Well-Known Member
I don't like ANY of the divisions, and I'm sure that Muhammad, peace be with him, wouldn't have liked it either..
Division is caused by exaggerating details thereby creating dogma .. or by following one's family or nation's dogma for example..
Allah says in the Qur'an:
"Mankind has split his religion into sects, each one rejoicing in its tenets"
satan is our enemy .. he only wishes to cause emity between us .. mankind would be better off remembering Almighty God IN CONGREGATION and not be so busy in constructing luxurious mosques for their tribe/sects.
But hey .. it's not going to happen is it!
It is going happen if 1.5 Billion Sunni first come forward and say , 'hey! Ahle Sunnah wa Jammat is created by Satan . ' Will they ?
InvestigateTruth
Veteran Member
Valid question, but if you have questions regarding Baha'I Scriptures and their Authenicity, you should ask that in Baha'I Directory. I should not reply in Shia directory regarding Baha'I Questions.
muhammad_isa
Veteran Member
No .. the 'sunnis' insist that Islam is NOT family orientated. They believe that those best to become leaders and take responsibility should be judged by their merit alone!
Actually, my statement is not quite correct .. the umma will be 'reunited' when Allah ta'alla intervenes
ie. When he sends down the Messiah
mojtaba
Active Member
Holy Qur'an, 42:23
Such is the good news that Allah gives to His servants who have faith and do righteous deeds! Say[O Muhammad], ‘I do not ask you any reward for it except the love of [my] relatives.’
Prophet Muhammad, " I am leaving for you two precious things and if you adhere to them both, you will never go astray after me. They are the Book of Allah and my Progeny, that is my Ahlul Bayt. The two shall never separate from each other until they come to me by the Pool (of Paradise)."
Sunni references:
(1) Al-Mustadrak `ala al-Sahihayn, by al-Hakim al-Naysaburi, vol. 3, p. 109.
(2) Al-Khasa'is, by al-Nasa'i, p. 112 [p. 93] [p. 15].
(3) Al-Mu`jam al-Kabir, by al-Tabarani, vol. 5, pp. 185-6.
(4) Nawadir al-usul, by al-Hakim al-Tirmidhi, pp. 68-9.
(5) Majma` al-Zawa`id wa-Manba` al-Fawa'id, by al-Haythami al-Shafi`i, vol. 9, p. 165.
(6) Manaqib, by Ibn al-Maghazili al-Shafi`i, pp. 16-18.
etc.
Yes brother. Those who rejected the Fact of Ghadir Khom, created the division in Islam.Allah says in the Qur'an:
"Mankind has split his religion into sects, each one rejoicing in its tenets"
satan is our enemy .. he only wishes to cause emity between us .. mankind would be better off remembering Almighty God IN CONGREGATION and not be so busy in constructing luxurious mosques for their tribe/sects.
But hey .. it's not going to happen is it!
mojtaba
Active Member
Your question,
"bring any proof that Ali . Hassan and/or Hussain being the primary witness of Prophet recorded Hadith from him and left for the latter generations intact ."
Because you are a Qur'anist(?) I answer you by a question. Your answer to this question is my answer to your question.
Bring any proof that the first Muslims being the primary witness of Prophet recorded Verses of Holy Qur'an from him and left for the latter generations intact.
muhammad_isa
Veteran Member
Oh yes?
..and who's going to SQUASH the division?
It's a similar problem with Palestine/Israel .. plenty of people can tell us which 'party' is in the right, but who's going to make peace?
The solution to these problems cannot be found in 'who is right' .. it can only be found with humility
Union
Well-Known Member
You are right.... The Sunni will never admit that they are the creators of divisions in Islam , abandoned GOD's command and executed Satan's plan .
No Messiah is needed to reunite us , there is something already within us to unite us .... that is Qur'an , hold fast to it and never be divided . Alas ! who cares , Sunni have Bukhari and Shia got Al-Kafi ... two scissors from both sides busy cutting this rope of ALLAH , swt .
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mojtaba
Active Member
Brothers, each of us has his belief. We should love eachother and keep in mind that WE are a unique Ummah.i.e., The Noble Islamic Ummah.
We should respect to the beliefs of eachother. We should think about our common things, i.e. our Qur'an, our Prophet and our Qiblah.
Please keep in mind the laws of RF.
We should respect to the beliefs of eachother. We should think about our common things, i.e. our Qur'an, our Prophet and our Qiblah.
Please keep in mind the laws of RF.
Union
Well-Known Member
Thousands of manuscripts of Qur'an existed all around the world . A major portions of it from the very date of the companions of Prophet , who heard the Qur'an from his very mouth and recorded it . Topkapi , Taskand , Peterborough ,Cairo , Sanna etc and many different places display these manuscript of the Qur'an in public to confirm this fact . These are all scientifically verified and well confirmed as well .
More interestingly the recent discovery of Qur'an's manuscript in Birmingham even dated the era when Prophet Muhammad was alive with 95% certainty . ALLAH swt willing more and more discoveries are coming in future to confirm that Qur'an was recorded and well preserved in the time of Prophet and his companions .
Now what about Hadith ? Castle in the air . Not Prophet nor Imam Ali did a little effort to save it . Why ? They didn't know what it was . Only some hundred years latter some deen-traders invented it to create divisions in Islam . Bukhari vs Al-Kafi , 4 Caliphs vs 12 Imams , Hanafi vs Ithn-Atharia , Fatima vs Ayesha , Ali vs Abu Bakar ..... war is still on .
Union
Well-Known Member
Thanks for the reminder bro , Will do that .
muhammad_isa
Veteran Member
mojtaba
Active Member
The books of companions of Imams were 400 books(400 'Asl), the Muhaddithins[i.e., narrators] of the third and the fourth centuries had these books and narrated their Hadiths. Narrators like Koleyni[author of Kafi], Shekh Saduq, Sheykh Tusi, Sheykh Shushtari, and nomerous other narrators with their books.
When you see the books of these narrators who were in different countries[e.g., Iraq, India, Iran, etc.], their Hadiths are similar.
Unfortunatly, there are now only 16 books of these 400 books. Thses 16 books have published.
Also some Hadiths like the Hadith of Ghadir Khom have narrated in diferent old books of the narrators in both Sunni and Shia books. These narrators were in different countries. Such these Hadiths have narrated from 110 Sahaba[companions of Prophet] and 84 Tabe'in[the next generation of Sahaba (RA) ]
Castle in the air!!! You said this because you do not know anything about Hadiths. Your knowledge is like what you mentioned.
As I mentioned, Imams efforted to save Hadiths and 400 books reached to the Muhaddithin[narratlrs] and they recorded them in their books and their books reached to us. Also you should know that in the time of the Khilafah of the first 3 Khalifs, writing and narration of Hadith was forbidden. Also 'A'esha has said that after demise of Prophet, Abubakr burned the Hadiths of Prophet Muhammad[according to Sunni authentic books, like Tazkaratul Huffaz, Zahabi, v1, pg. 11]. Also Umar did such doing[Seyr 'Alamul 'Al-Nubala, by Zahabi, v5, pg59/ Taqiidul 'Ilm, by Katib Baghdadi, v1, pg, 53 ].You are ignorant about the history of Islam.
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mojtaba
Active Member
I am sorry for you. You should respect the belifs of others.Hence the Mushaf is also in ocultation ! That's clever . Story finished .
Mushaf of Ali is also mentioned in the books of Sunnis.
Sunni References,
1.Fathul Bari fi Tafsir Sahih al-Bukhari, by al-Asqalani al-Shafeii, v.9, pg. 42/ v.9, p52
2.Al-Isti'ab fi Ma'rifah al-Ashab, by al-Nemeri al-Qertebi al-Maliki, v3, pg974.
3.Al-Riyaz al-Nadhrah fi Manaqib al-'Asharah, v2, pg. 217
4.Al-Wafi bel-Wafiyyat, by Salahuddin Khalil ibn 'Aybak, v17, pg. 167
Holy Qur'an, 17:36
Do not pursue that of which you have no knowledge. Indeed hearing, eyesight, and the heart—all of these are accountable.
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Union
Well-Known Member
It is just like my time machine story . 'It is there' but physically it is not there , then ? 'It is written that it is there.' Thanks .
mojtaba
Active Member
Yes. According to your story, the researchers and scholars of Islamic history in the universities of Islamic and non-Islamic countries are trying to find your time machine and are wasting their time. Thanks.
You are so headstrong....
mojtaba
Active Member
Linke of the website of The Grand International Islamic Library Of The Great Ayatollah Mar'ashi Najafi
http://www.marashilibrary.com/english/2index.html
Strict identifying of the Islamic antique libraries which were the kernels of civilization and culture of mankind, helps us to re-know the Islamic culture and civilization. Besides, it makes the Moslems more familiar with their bright history and makes the way to future easy for them. Also, other nations and culture will become familiar with the Islamic worthy culture and civilization.
Ayatollah Mar'ashi Najafi, who is the greatest culture guard during the last four century, understood the fact of this re-knowing from youngsters and waist no time in collecting the writings of the great Islamic learned men. He began this when the international thieves had begun a vast efforts to capture these great treasures. Ayat Allah Marashi stayed lonely in front of the looters for a long time. He was the one who collect such a treasure rejecting his basic needs such as food and cloth, from the very first years of his education.
His effective works made some other learned men to collect the scientific works of scientists. As a result of such a hard work, there is a library which is one of the greatest libraries of Islamic countries. Dr. Sayed Mahmood Marashi - his older son - has learned a lot about the bibliography by his father and now, as known as one of the greatest bibliographers around the world.
http://www.marashilibrary.com/english/2index.html
Strict identifying of the Islamic antique libraries which were the kernels of civilization and culture of mankind, helps us to re-know the Islamic culture and civilization. Besides, it makes the Moslems more familiar with their bright history and makes the way to future easy for them. Also, other nations and culture will become familiar with the Islamic worthy culture and civilization.
Ayatollah Mar'ashi Najafi, who is the greatest culture guard during the last four century, understood the fact of this re-knowing from youngsters and waist no time in collecting the writings of the great Islamic learned men. He began this when the international thieves had begun a vast efforts to capture these great treasures. Ayat Allah Marashi stayed lonely in front of the looters for a long time. He was the one who collect such a treasure rejecting his basic needs such as food and cloth, from the very first years of his education.
His effective works made some other learned men to collect the scientific works of scientists. As a result of such a hard work, there is a library which is one of the greatest libraries of Islamic countries. Dr. Sayed Mahmood Marashi - his older son - has learned a lot about the bibliography by his father and now, as known as one of the greatest bibliographers around the world.
Union
Well-Known Member
For sure.. And the trophy goes to all salafi/wahabi muhaddith for efforts in ilm ul hadith. And to Ismael Bukhari for his 16 years hard work and to Hadith master Abu Huraira . Still Shia think that they were liars.
And then who make the Shia Muhaddith not liars ?
Double standard , right?
mojtaba
Active Member
Your posts are not scientific. Rather, they are emotional.
We do not believe that Bukhari was liar. Rather, we believe that this is not true that all of the Hadiths of his book are Sahih. Indeed, we believe that, there are both authentic and non-authentic Hadiths in Bukhari book.
There are some Sunni scholars that like Shia scholars do not believe in reliability of Abu Hurayra.e.g., Ibrahim Nazzam, Abu Ja'far Askafi, Muhammad Abu Rabboh.
I do not know what is the point, different opinions in a scientific field is a common thing.
For example, in biology(my field), some scientists believe that so and so enzime has three domains. But others believe that it has two domains. This does not mean that molecular biology is not a strong science.
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