Shiv Ling??

[GURSIKH]

Where is that story from, it is very similar to Guru Nanak's visit to Mecca.

I have no idea where it's from. I read it somewhere a long time ago, and loved it so much that I never forgot it.

Bhai Gurdas ji ,contemporary to Guru sahib wrote ...

Vaar 1 Pauri 32 At Mecca

baabaa dhiri makay gaiaa neel basatr dhaaray banavaaree|
Donning blue attire then Baba Nanak went to Mecca.
Line 1

aasaa hadi kitaab kachhi koojaa baang musalaa dhaaree|
He held staff in his hand, pressed a book under his armpit, caught hold of a metal pot and mattress.
Line 2


baitdaa jaai maseet vichi jidai haajee haji gujaaree|
Now he sat in a mosque where the pilgrms (hajis) had gathered.
Line 3

jaa baabaa sutaa raati no vali maharaabay paai pasaaree|
When Baba (Nanak) slept in the night spreading his legs towards the alcove of mosque at Kaba,
Line 4


jeevani maaree|ati dee kayharhaa sutaa kudhar kudhaaree|
the qazi named Jivan kicked him and asked who was this infidel enacting blasphemy.
Line 5


lataa vali khudaai day kiu kari paiaa hoi bajigaaree|
Why this sinner is sleeping his legs spread towards God, Khuda.
Line 6


tangon pakarhi ghaseetiaa dhiriaa makaa kalaa dikhaaree|
Catching hold of the legs he lynched (Baba Nanak) and lo and behold the miracle, the whole of Mecca seemed to be revolving.
Line 7


hoi hairaanu karayni juhaaree ॥32॥
All got surprised and they all bowed.
Line 8


Vaar 1 Pauri 33 Discussion with the Qazis

puchhani gal eemaan dee kaajee mulaan ikatday hoee|
Qazi and maulvis got together and began discussing religion.
Line 1

vadaa saang varataaiaa|akhi n sakai kudarati koee|
A great fantasy has been created and no one could understood its mystery.
Line 2


puchhani dholi kitaab no hindoo vadaa ki musalamaanoee|
They asked Baba Nanak to open and search in his book whether Hindu is great or the Muslim.
Line 3

baabaa aakhay haajeeaa subhi amalaa baajhahu dono roee|
Baba replied to the pilgrim hajis, that, without good deeds both will have to weep and wail.
Line 4

hindoo musalamaan dui daragah andari|ahani n ddhoee|
Only by being a Hindu or a Muslim one can not get accepted in the court of the Lord.
Line 5


kachaa rangu kusanbh daa paanee dhotai diru n rahoee|
As the colour of safflower is impermanent and is washed away in water, likewise the colours of religiosity are also temporary.
Line 6


karani bakheelee aapi vichi raam raheem kudaai khaloee|
(Followers of both the religions) In their expositions, denounce Ram and Rahim.
Line 7


raahi saitaanee duneeaa goee ॥33॥
The whole of the world is following the ways of Satan.
Line 8


source


http://www.searchgurbani.com/main.php?book=bhai_gurdas_vaaran&action=pauripage&pauri=32&vaar=1

 

[ZoyaHayat]

My Dear Hindu Brothers and Sisters,

Can anybody clearly explain the origin of the idol Shiv Ling? How it is being formed and why?

Dear Ihsan-pno...

The Shivalingam denotes in it's true right-the true form of God...

It denotes the gender ambiguity of God...as God is neither male nor female...so the Shivalingam represents that...

The Lingam is the tall part of the Shivalingam...it represents the male Divine force...the bowl shape below Lingam represents the Yoni...the Yoni is the representation of the female Divine force-thus making the whole being sexless-ambiguous-which in true essence is what God is in Islam,Hinduism etc...

It is washed by Milk...Milk is seen as a pure liquid...that is why it is worshipped and washed with Milk...the Milk flows out of the Yoni(bottom part of the Shivalingam)...thus showing that the female Divine force is the fore-bearer...

I hope this shall answer your query xxx

 

[ZoyaHayat]

some sources say Muhammed worshiped shiv linga

"Muhammad destroyed all 360 idols, but even he could not summon the courage to completely obliterate the Shivling in the Kaaba. He entered the temple and kissed the black stone. The Shivling was so sacred that the man who so detested idol- worship ended up kissing the largest idol in the Kaaba."

Dear Nameless...

The Black Stone placed in the Holy Kaaba is not the Shivalingam...yes that Stone is Black but surely not the Shivalingam...

The Black Stone is called the Hijr-e-Aswadh...it was from Heaven itself...

Below are a few links to enlighten many :

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Stone

Black Stone of Mecca (Islam) -- Britannica Online Encyclopedia

Black Stone of Mecca - Crystalinks

Thank you ...

 

[Metempsychosis]

Dear Ihsan-pno...

The Shivalingam denotes in it's true right-the true form of God...

It denotes the gender ambiguity of God...as God is neither male nor female...so the Shivalingam represents that...

Right..You are a true muslim...

 

[nameless]

Dear Nameless...

The Black Stone placed in the Holy Kaaba is not the Shivalingam...yes that Stone is Black but surely not the Shivalingam...

The Black Stone is called the Hijr-e-Aswadh...it was from Heaven itself...

Below are a few links to enlighten many :

Thank you ...

i agree with you, zoya.

pls let me know more about that.
Why this black stone was placed inside Holy Kaaba along with other 360 idols?
Why Muhammed destroyed all the 360 idols but kissed this black stone?

 

[zenzero]

Friend nameless,

Why Muhammed destroyed all the 360 idols but kissed this black stone?

In the name of allah!
how would anyone know that?
further any explanation could be wrong as that would only be the speaker's own perception and not the doer's.
Personally could kiss anyone liked but not necessary that anyone else would know, why that KISS!
Hahahaha!!!!!!!!!!!!
just enjoying!
Have a great day!
Love & rgds

 

[Satsangi]

The Puranic story about Shiva Linga is as follows. During the creation, there was an argument between Lord Brahma and Lord Vishnu as to who is the Lord and who was the first to appear. Suddenly, there was a huge pillar of fire extending to infinity above and below the earth. Lord Vishnu went below the earth to find its end and Lord Brahma went above to find its end. They both returned after failing to find its origin or end. At that time Lord Shiva appeared from the pillar of fire and explained to them that He was the Lord of all, the cause of all causes. The Shiva Linga represents that pillar of fire (Bhramajyoti) which is without beginning or end.

Regards,

 

[ZoyaHayat]

Awwwwww thank you Anti-religion ...despite being a born Muslim-i have different ethics and beliefs of Islam xxx

I am a different Muslim xxx

 

[ZoyaHayat]

i agree with you, zoya.

pls let me know more about that.
Why this black stone was placed inside Holy Kaaba along with other 360 idols?
Why Muhammed destroyed all the 360 idols but kissed this black stone?

Hiya Nameless ...

Below i have answered your two questions ...

Question:Why this black stone was placed inside Holy Kaaba along with other 360 idols?
Answer:The Black Stone was sent to Earth way before the Kaaba was formed...it was sent with Hazrath Adam(AS) and Hazrath Eve(AS) on their descent to Earth after being banished out of Heaven/Garden of Eden by God and the Angels...the Black Stone was a 'marker' for them to worship God on Earth...it formed the very first Temple of God in the Arabian Peninsula...later,at the time of the flood of Hazrath Noah(AS)-the Temple of God was destroyed...it had to be rebuilt...this very task was given to Hazrath Abraham(AS) and his very firstborn son Hazrath Ishmael(AS)-who at that time had been relocated to the Valley of Paran at Bacca(Makkah) with his mother Hazrath Hagar(AS)...

Question:Why Muhammed destroyed all the 360 idols but kissed this black stone?
Answer:The Black Stone was not an Idol...nor a deity in any possible way...nor it had any myth or legacy to prove it's form like deities of other various religions do...it was a 'marker' for the Temple of God-the Kaaba..the Pre-Islamic Arabia Peninsula was well aware of this fact...that is why the Black Stone has/had no form,shape or any manifestations such as of the Goddess Al Uzza or Goddess Al Laath or Goddess Manaath or God Hubal and many more other Arabian Nabatean deities...it was a heavenly stone...thus it was kissed by Hazrath Muhammad(SAW)...and was not removed-at the time of cleansing the Kaaba ...

I hope Nameless i have answered your queries ) xxx

 

[Metempsychosis]

Awwwwww thank you Anti-religion ...despite being a born Muslim-i have different ethics and beliefs of Islam xxx

I am a different Muslim xxx

U are doing Innovation...Bidah...HAHA...

 

[ZoyaHayat]

U are doing Innovation...Bidah...HAHA...

Lolzzz no i am not...

I am just a Sufi Woman...

An Ascetic...

A Spiritualist...

A Mystic...

A Divine Lover...

 

[Satsangi]

I saw the picture of Black Stone; it is exactly like a ShivaLingam. If it was just a stone, then why keep it or kiss it? What does it matter even if it is from the Heaven; it is a stone after all, right?

The explanations about the ShivaLinga being a phallic symbol are bogus and totally unfounded in the Scriptures. Can anyone quote the scripture please saying that ShivaLinga is the phallic symbol?

As I put the Shiva Puran explanation in my previous post; ShivaLinga represents the Infinite Supreme God- the cause of all the causes and the Lord of all.

Regards,

 

[ZoyaHayat]

I saw the picture of Black Stone; it is exactly like a ShivaLingam. If it was just a stone, then why keep it or kiss it? What does it matter even if it is from the Heaven; it is a stone after all, right?

The explanations about the ShivaLinga being a phallic symbol are bogus and totally unfounded in the Scriptures. Can anyone quote the scripture please saying that ShivaLinga is the phallic symbol?

As I put the Shiva Puran explanation in my previous post; ShivaLinga represents the Infinite Supreme God- the cause of all the causes and the Lord of all.

Regards,

Dear Satsangi ...

Could you please put a picture of the Black Stone on here?...it definately is'nt the shape of the Shivalingam...yes the Black Stone is Black but surely not like the Shivalingam ...

Never did i say the Shivalingam is a Phallic symbol...i said it represents God's both forces-the masculine and feminine...it shows the genderless truth of God...thus,the Yoni is seen as the Mother Earth(as in feminine) and the Lingam as the 'masculine'(the God)... not Phallus...

I hope this might eradicate your confusion of what i said previously...please do re-refer to what i said initially xxx

 

[Satsangi]

Dear Satsangi ...

Could you please put a picture of the Black Stone on here?...it definately is'nt the shape of the Shivalingam...yes the Black Stone is Black but surely not like the Shivalingam ...

Never did i say the Shivalingam is a Phallic symbol...i said it represents God's both forces-the masculine and feminine...it shows the genderless truth of God...thus,the Yoni is seen as the Mother Earth(as in feminine) and the Lingam as the 'masculine'(the God)... not Phallus...

I hope this might eradicate your confusion of what i said previously...please do re-refer to what i said initially xxx

Dear ZoyaHayat,

The shape of the ShivaLingam is not a definite oval shape first (do not include the Yoni part as the part of the ShivaLingam. ShivaLinga is just the oval-like Linga). I cannot post the link here of the Black Stone as it would not let me post links, but I found the picture through the links posted by you.

Secondly, I did not mean to point at you only when I said about the phallic symbol. But, even about the Linga being masculine energy symbol and Yoni being the feminine energy symbol- can you please quote the scriptural source? There is no authentic scriptural base for this except comments by Western authors. Kindly type in ShivaLinga search in the Wi-Ki.

Regards,

 

[Tiapan]

.... but Holy Quran has so many scientific proofs, Imagine how come a man from arabian deser before 1430 years can tell this much of science without any scientific advancement. So there are many proofs available that Quran alone is the word of God.

First welcome to the forum.

Nice sweeping statement, but perhaps you could start another thread where you could prove the claim you have just made.
Before you do may I suggest you first search this forum about the topic, so you avoid embarrassing your self. Others have tried and failed.
To achieve rational discussion one must remove Islams rose colored circular glasses.

I would be happy with a single example that can be categorically proven. My opinion is you are misguided.



Cheers

 

[ZoyaHayat]

Dear ZoyaHayat,

The shape of the ShivaLingam is not a definite oval shape first (do not include the Yoni part as the part of the ShivaLingam. ShivaLinga is just the oval-like Linga). I cannot post the link here of the Black Stone as it would not let me post links, but I found the picture through the links posted by you.

Secondly, I did not mean to point at you only when I said about the phallic symbol. But, even about the Linga being masculine energy symbol and Yoni being the feminine energy symbol- can you please quote the scriptural source? There is no authentic scriptural base for this except comments by Western authors. Kindly type in ShivaLinga search in the Wi-Ki.

Regards,

Dear Satsangi ...

Below are a few abstract concering the Shivalingam as a Phallic symbol(not that i think it is):

Shiva Lingam as a Phallic symbol
[SIZE=-1]
Hinduism conceptualizes Brahman[/SIZE][SIZE=-1], the supreme power, as having three main roles: that of God the Creator, God the Preserver and God the Destroyer. This trinity is represented iconically by the deities Brahma, Vishnu and Shiva respectively. Thus, it is Shiva, the destructive form of the Almighty, who is represented by the Lingam or Phallus, which is manifestly the CREATIVE or generative power of Man. This points to an origin of the tradition of using the Lingam as a divine symbol that is utterly sublime in its philosophical underpinnings.
[/SIZE][SIZE=-1]
[/SIZE][SIZE=-1]The form of the Shiva Linga serves to further emphasize this inference. The base of the Lingam is the Yoni also known as 'Parashakti' the feminine. The upright portion of the Lingam is shown as being protuberant through the yoni, and the two form a unified structure. Thus, the Lingam represents the very instant of creation, or rather of regeneration, when the perishable and eventually destructible Old renews and regenerates itself in another form, the New that is to come.

Tantra

The Tantras consider the lingam to be a phallic symbol and to be the representation of Shivas phallus, in its erect form. Accordingly, the lingam contains the soul-seed containing within it the essence of the entire cosmos. The lingam arises out of the base (Yoni) which represents Parvati according to some or Vishnu, Brahma in female and neuter form according to some.

Puranas

The puranas, especially the Vamana purana, Shiva purana, Linga purana, Skanda Purana, Matsya Purana, and Visva-Sara-Prakasha, have narratives of the origin and symbolism of the Shiva lingam. Many puranas attribute the origin to the curse of sages leading to the separation of and installation of the phallus of Lord Shiva on earth; many also refer to the endlessness of the lingam, linked to the egos of Lord Vishnu and Lord Brahma.


[/SIZE]Another abstract also says the same:

Worship of the Phallus
According to some scholars, worship of Shiva Linga in effect means worship of the reproduction function. For, they say that the other meaning of the Sanskrit word ‘Linga’ is gender in general and phallus (the male reproductive organ) in particular. They believe that the base of the Lingam corresponds to the Yoni which mean vagina or the female reproductive organ. Correspondence of Linga and Yoni in a Shiva Linga is therefore interpreted as the representation of the process of copulation. Scholars further opine that the Kalash (container of water) that is suspended over the Shiva Linga from which water drips over the Linga also correspond to the idea of intercourse.

Connecting the origin of Shiva Linga to the early Indus Valley civilization, scholars opine that tribes of the Indus Valley took to the togetherness of Lingam and Yoni in a Shiva Linga as the point of energy, creation and enlightenment.

Interpretation in Tantra
According to Tantra, Lingam is a symbol of Shiva's phallus in spiritual form. They say, the lingam contains the soul-seed within which lies the essence of the entire cosmos. The lingam arises out of the base (Yoni) which represents Parvati according to some or Vishnu, Brahma in female and neuter form according to others.

Interpretation in Puranas
Puranas, especially the Vamana Purana, Shiva Purana, Linga Purana, Skanda Purana, Matsya Purana and Visva-Sara-Prakasha attribute the origin of Shiva Linga to the curse of sages leading to the separation of and installation of the phallus of Lord Shiva on earth. Some also refer to the endlessness of the lingam to be linked to the egos of Lord Vishnu and Lord Brahma

I hope that helps you Satsangi xxx

 

[Metempsychosis]

In Shaivism ,Moksha(liberation) is represented as cosmic union of divine energies Siva(male) and Shakti(female) at the Sahasara Chakra (Crown center).

Shiva Linga is representation of this union.This should not be misunderstood with physical union.

Moreover,since in Vedantic thought everything is Brahman,even a phallic symbol should not be seen as something bad.

Nice sweeping statement, but perhaps you could start another thread where you could prove the claim you have just made.
Before you do may I suggest you first search this forum about the topic, so you avoid embarrassing your self. Others have tried and failed.
To achieve rational discussion one must remove Islams rose colored circular glasses.

I would be happy with a single example that can be categorically proven. My opinion is you are misguided.

Cheers

He is trying to copy Zakir Naik's logic..None of the religions can ever be proven.Proving Islam based on so called Quranic miracles is baseless.

 

[ZoyaHayat]

In Shaivism ,Moksha(liberation) is represented as cosmic union of divine energies Siva(male) and Shakti(female) at the Sahasara Chakra (Crown center).

Shiva Linga is representation of this union.This should not be misunderstood with physical union.

Moreover,since in Vedantic thought everything is Brahman,even a phallic symbol should not be seen as something bad.


He is trying to copy Zakir Naik's logic..None of the religions can ever be proven.Proving Islam based on so called Quranic miracles is baseless.

This is what i was trying to say about the Shivalingam...thank you Anti-religion for elaborating it better than i ...

xxx

 

[Satsangi]

Dear ZoyaHayat,

Your reply is on a superficial research.

In Tantra, the feminine and male parts means the Kundalini Shakti (given a feminine symbol by many, called serpent energy by many etc... and hence not strictly "feminine" either) arising from the Muladhar Chakra and then going all the way towards the Brahmarandhra Chakra- the seat of the Ultimate (not exactly a "He" either, but referred to as such by some). The Tantra is highly misunderstood as sexual in nature. The whole concept about the "male" and "female" things started after the western authors started studying the scriptures.

Coming to the Puranas; I have already quoted from the Shiva Purana the history of Lingodbhava (origin of the Lingam) and what it means- see my previous post. Again, if you type "Lingam" in google and then click on the Wi-Ki article, the confusion will become very clear. In fact, it will totally clear the misconception about what the Skanda Purana and the Linga Purana says about the Lingam.

The story about the curse of the sages- can u please quote me to that article or the whole Puranic story and I will gladly explain this story in proper context of its background.

Again you have quoted the above abstracts; I do not know the source. If you want an authentic perspective on the Lingam you should get it from the authoritative works by Hindu Saints; not even "scholars" (for example works of Saints like Swami Vivekananda, Shri Adi Shankaracharya, more contemporary Swami Sivananda etc.) If the source of your abstract is from a Siddha Saint or directly from a standard Hindu scripture, then kindly mention it.

Regards,

 

[Satsangi]

Dear ZoyaHayat,

I found the stories that u referred to in ur post; I believe those excerpts are from the website www.mahashivaratri.org. The original Puranas are in Sanskrit and one word in Sanskrit may have many meanings under different circumstances and hence hard to interpret.

From Padma Purana- it says about the curse of Sage Bhrigu. Here is the story and its explanation. In the Hinduism, the Lord does Sankalpa (decision) to create the Universe; this Sankalpa(decision) itself is the seed of creation. Lord Shiva and His Consort Devi Parvati were engaged in the creation- Devi Parvati here is the Prakriti (or the unmanifest nature in primordial state) and Lord Shiva is the God. This is when Sage Bhrigu visits and was not answered for sometime which got him angry and he cursed that He will be worshipped in the Linga and Yoni form. If it was really a curse, would it be for people to worship Him? No, the Sage just said that people will worship this process of creation of Universe in this symbolic form as the true process of Universe creation is beyond human comprehension.

From the Shiva Purana- Lord Shiva was going in the forest when the chaste wives of certain Sages saw him and they went after Him. This story only indicates the innate ability in women to recognize manifest God first before man and bestow their divine love on the God. A similar thing is described in the Bhagvatam with Lord Krishna when He was a child. However, the Sages could not recognize the very God they worshipped and they cursed Him to loose His beautiful body. At that time, Lord Shiva Himself becomes a Jyotirlinga which threatens to annihilate all the three worlds. He can only be calmed by Devi Parvati who is His best Devotee; hence she takes the form of Yoni to protect the worlds.

Regards,