Shiv Ling??

[ZoyaHayat]

Dear ZoyaHayat,

I found the stories that u referred to in ur post; I believe those excerpts are from the website www.mahashivaratri.org. The original Puranas are in Sanskrit and one word in Sanskrit may have many meanings under different circumstances and hence hard to interpret.

From Padma Purana- it says about the curse of Sage Bhrigu. Here is the story and its explanation. In the Hinduism, the Lord does Sankalpa (decision) to create the Universe; this Sankalpa(decision) itself is the seed of creation. Lord Shiva and His Consort Devi Parvati were engaged in the creation- Devi Parvati here is the Prakriti (or the unmanifest nature in primordial state) and Lord Shiva is the God. This is when Sage Bhrigu visits and was not answered for sometime which got him angry and he cursed that He will be worshipped in the Linga and Yoni form. If it was really a curse, would it be for people to worship Him? No, the Sage just said that people will worship this process of creation of Universe in this symbolic form as the true process of Universe creation is beyond human comprehension.

From the Shiva Purana- Lord Shiva was going in the forest when the chaste wives of certain Sages saw him and they went after Him. This story only indicates the innate ability in women to recognize manifest God first before man and bestow their divine love on the God. A similar thing is described in the Bhagvatam with Lord Krishna when He was a child. However, the Sages could not recognize the very God they worshipped and they cursed Him to loose His beautiful body. At that time, Lord Shiva Himself becomes a Jyotirlinga which threatens to annihilate all the three worlds. He can only be calmed by Devi Parvati who is His best Devotee; hence she takes the form of Yoni to protect the worlds.

Regards,

Exactly Satsangi ...

Goddess Parvati takes the form of the Yoni-the feminine Divine force-like i stated earlier...that in itself proves that very fact...

Please re-read my initial post to this thread about the Shivalingam ...it was the very thing i said...the Yoni represents the feminine of the Divine force and now you have indirectly concluded the same by your quote :S...

Lol xxx

 

[ZoyaHayat]

Dear Ihsan-pno...

The Shivalingam denotes in it's true right-the true form of God...

It denotes the gender ambiguity of God...as God is neither male nor female...so the Shivalingam represents that...

The Lingam is the tall part of the Shivalingam...it represents the male Divine force...the bowl shape below Lingam represents the Yoni...the Yoni is the representation of the female Divine force-thus making the whole being sexless-ambiguous-which in true essence is what God is in Islam,Hinduism etc...

It is washed by Milk...Milk is seen as a pure liquid...that is why it is worshipped and washed with Milk...the Milk flows out of the Yoni(bottom part of the Shivalingam)...thus showing that the female Divine force is the fore-bearer...

I hope this shall answer your query xxx

Dear Satsangi...above is what i said initially(my first post to this very thread)...

Pay extra attention to when i mention the Yoni xxx

 

[ZoyaHayat]

Dear ZoyaHayat,

I found the stories that u referred to in ur post; I believe those excerpts are from the website www.mahashivaratri.org. The original Puranas are in Sanskrit and one word in Sanskrit may have many meanings under different circumstances and hence hard to interpret.

From Padma Purana- it says about the curse of Sage Bhrigu. Here is the story and its explanation. In the Hinduism, the Lord does Sankalpa (decision) to create the Universe; this Sankalpa(decision) itself is the seed of creation. Lord Shiva and His Consort Devi Parvati were engaged in the creation- Devi Parvati here is the Prakriti (or the unmanifest nature in primordial state) and Lord Shiva is the God. This is when Sage Bhrigu visits and was not answered for sometime which got him angry and he cursed that He will be worshipped in the Linga and Yoni form. If it was really a curse, would it be for people to worship Him? No, the Sage just said that people will worship this process of creation of Universe in this symbolic form as the true process of Universe creation is beyond human comprehension.

From the Shiva Purana- Lord Shiva was going in the forest when the chaste wives of certain Sages saw him and they went after Him. This story only indicates the innate ability in women to recognize manifest God first before man and bestow their divine love on the God. A similar thing is described in the Bhagvatam with Lord Krishna when He was a child. However, the Sages could not recognize the very God they worshipped and they cursed Him to loose His beautiful body. At that time, Lord Shiva Himself becomes a Jyotirlinga which threatens to annihilate all the three worlds. He can only be calmed by Devi Parvati who is His best Devotee; hence she takes the form of Yoni to protect the worlds.

Regards,

Satsangi you finally admit the sources i gave were correct!Lolzzzz...

Phewwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww ...

xxx

 

[Satsangi]

Satsangi you finally admit the sources i gave were correct!Lolzzzz...

Phewwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww ...

xxx

Dear ZoyaHayat,

The source u quoted was a website. But the explanation given by you vastly differs from mine. That is due to Sanskrit being a hard language and also the proper context and interpretation of the story was not taken into consideration.

I do say that the Linga and the Yoni are NOT for all Hindus the "male" and "female" energy; although it can be labelled as such by some people who just read the scripture superficially without taking the whole background into consideration. The Jyotirlinga (which Lord Shiva becomes) is that Knowledge (BrahmaGyan) which annihilates all your bondages of ignorance (known as the three world in the Puranas). Goddess Parvati is the only ideal devotee who can fully assimilate that knowledge. That is the essence of that story. The story also highlights how sometimes even the Sages who are stuck to the common Dharmas (rules of conduct) of husband/wife, son/daughter etc fail to recognize Him because they are still bound by that bondage of ignorance. Whereas people who left such bondages (example their wives) did so because their ignorance was destroyed by their mere recognition of Lord Shiva.

The above context and meaning of the story can only be understood when you take the whole Purana into consideration and not the isolated story superficially without its meaning in context.

Forget about Lord Shiva and Mata Parvati; as per Hinduism, even me and you are not male or female in reality. In reality, we are the Soul (Atman) and thats it. Hence your explanation that Linga is the "male" energy and Yoni is the "female" energy and both together denote a "gender neutral God" is not correct in its real meaning.

I would happily and gladly prefer to loose a debate with a devotee of God like you anytime; I do accept that the Puranas are the source of those stories. But, I do not aceept your interpretation; that debate I have to do as it concerns with basic understanding of the form of the Truth Itself.

Regards,

 

[A-ManESL]

SUFISM is considered HARAM in ISLAM. There have been numerous FATWAS issued already against and is not acceptable by Islamic LAW.

This is nonsense.

 

[ZoyaHayat]

This is nonsense.

Dharma_seeker is correct!!!

 

[Metempsychosis]

Dharma_seeker is correct!!!

Why is Sufism haram?


BTW.Haram is nice.

 

[ZoyaHayat]

Why is Sufism haram?


BTW.Haram is nice.

Hiya Anti-religion ...

Sufism is seen as forbidden by Islam for many reasons...

Below are are few examples:

Music:Islam forbids the playing of music-Sufism does'nt...

Dancing:Islam forbids dancing-Sufism does'nt...

Sufism preaches God is in the heart-Islam contradicts that...

Below are are few links to enlighten the key differences between Islam and Sufism:

What is Sufism?

Sufism in Islam « khuram

I hope this might help xxx

 

[ZoyaHayat]

Dear ZoyaHayat,

The source u quoted was a website. But the explanation given by you vastly differs from mine. That is due to Sanskrit being a hard language and also the proper context and interpretation of the story was not taken into consideration.

I do say that the Linga and the Yoni are NOT for all Hindus the "male" and "female" energy; although it can be labelled as such by some people who just read the scripture superficially without taking the whole background into consideration. The Jyotirlinga (which Lord Shiva becomes) is that Knowledge (BrahmaGyan) which annihilates all your bondages of ignorance (known as the three world in the Puranas). Goddess Parvati is the only ideal devotee who can fully assimilate that knowledge. That is the essence of that story. The story also highlights how sometimes even the Sages who are stuck to the common Dharmas (rules of conduct) of husband/wife, son/daughter etc fail to recognize Him because they are still bound by that bondage of ignorance. Whereas people who left such bondages (example their wives) did so because their ignorance was destroyed by their mere recognition of Lord Shiva.

The above context and meaning of the story can only be understood when you take the whole Purana into consideration and not the isolated story superficially without its meaning in context.

Forget about Lord Shiva and Mata Parvati; as per Hinduism, even me and you are not male or female in reality. In reality, we are the Soul (Atman) and thats it. Hence your explanation that Linga is the "male" energy and Yoni is the "female" energy and both together denote a "gender neutral God" is not correct in its real meaning.

I would happily and gladly prefer to loose a debate with a devotee of God like you anytime; I do accept that the Puranas are the source of those stories. But, I do not aceept your interpretation; that debate I have to do as it concerns with basic understanding of the form of the Truth Itself.

Regards,

I still contradict you Satsangi ...

 

[ZoyaHayat]

Hiya Anti-religion ...

Sufism is seen as forbidden by Islam for many reasons...

Below are are few examples:

Music:Islam forbids the playing of music-Sufism does'nt...

Dancing:Islam forbids dancing-Sufism does'nt...

Sufism preaches God is in the heart-Islam contradicts that...

Below are are few links to enlighten the key differences between Islam and Sufism:

What is Sufism?

Sufism in Islam « khuram

I hope this might help xxx

And a few more links...

Sufism: Doctrines and Practices :: load-islam

[tamil] Islam vs Sufism

xxx

 

[Metempsychosis]

And a few more links...

Sufism: Doctrines and Practices :: load-islam

[tamil] Islam vs Sufism

xxx

Thanks...I read this

With regard to the question of the whether the Sufi shaykhs have some kind of contact, this is true, but their contact is with the shayaateen,
not with Allaah, so they inspire one another with adorned speech as a delusion

Shayataan Rocks!!:angel2:
We were having a debate on it here.Perhaps you can make more contributions there.

 

[ZoyaHayat]

Thanks...I read this


Shayataan Rocks!!:angel2:
We were having a debate on it here.Perhaps you can make more contributions there.

Anti-religion :O

 

[Satsangi]

I still contradict you Satsangi ...

Dear Zoya,

Okay, silence from me....happy now?? LoL....

I was also reading to the links on Sufism posted by you. It said that you need to have contact with a master who is alive. Do you have a Guru?

Regards,

 

[ZoyaHayat]

Dear Zoya,

Okay, silence from me....happy now?? LoL....

I was also reading to the links on Sufism posted by you. It said that you need to have contact with a master who is alive. Do you have a Guru?

Regards,

Lol Satsangi you are indeed funny ...

Yes many people of many religions have their alive masters i.e Gurus,Pirs,Sanths etc...

But it is NOT IMPORTANT TO HAVE AN ALIVE MASTER-IF YOU CANT FIND ONE...

I need to find an alive master-who is truly honest and real-not any fibber...

xxx

 

[Satsangi]

I need to find an alive master-who is truly honest and real-not any fibber...

xxx

Its said that when u are "ready" the Master finds you. Recognize him/her though; may not be in your imagination.

Regards,

 

[ZoyaHayat]

Its said that when u are "ready" the Master finds you. Recognize him/her though; may not be in your imagination.

Regards,

That's right...the master only finds you when you are 'ready' or you possess the qualities spiritually ...

There are two type of masters i.e God and alive master(Guru,Pir.Sanths etc)...
God is always present within the heart-within yourself(strictly Universal Sufism-Spiritualism,Ascesticism and Mysticism belief)...
Alive master either finds you or you find them...

xxx

 

[Satsangi]

That's right...the master only finds you when you are 'ready' or you possess the qualities spiritually ...

There are two type of masters i.e God and alive master(Guru,Pir.Sanths etc)...
God is always present within the heart-within yourself(strictly Universal Sufism-Spiritualism,Ascesticism and Mysticism belief)...
Alive master either finds you or you find them...

xxx

Same belief is in Sanatan Dharma (Hinduism).

Regards,

 

[ZoyaHayat]

Same belief is in Sanatan Dharma (Hinduism).

Regards,

Exactly Satsangi...thus,all religions are from the One same God...

Poeple are just ignorant who cause divisions and sectarianisms...

For me He/She is the same Allah,Aum,Onkar,Jehovah-like i have said in many other posts in the forum...

xx

 

[A-ManESL]

Dharma_seeker is correct!!!

Perhaps Zoya, by the word Islam you and I mean different things and that is the source of confusion. I believe that by Islam you always mean wahabi interpretation of its laws. Anyway, lets not argue this further. Interiorally Sufism does transcend Islam. In fact being a mystical tradition, it transcends everything, even the ideas of ascetism, music etc. As Rumi says, "All except God doth perish."

Dharma_seeker, you may want to check the link I posted. By the unanimous opinion of Islamic scholars, of political leaderships of virtually all Muslim countries, and of various Islamic organizations, Sufism was recognized as a valid part of Islam in Amman, (Jordan) recently. I do believe that takes care of the orthodox Muslim approach to Sufism. One of the sources of Islamic law is Ijma and as this assembly constituted an Ijma, the validity of Sufism is part of Islamic law. Regarding the Sufis views of their belonging to Islam, I believe these quotes by Mewlana Rumi speak it all,

Flee to God's Koran, take refuge in it
there with the spirits of the prophets merge.
The Book conveys the prophets' circumstances
those fish of the pure sea of Majesty.

I am the servant of the Qur'an as long as I have life.
I am the dust on the path of Muhammad, the Chosen One.
If anyone quotes anything except this from my sayings,
I am quit of him and outraged by these words

Regards.

 

[ZoyaHayat]

Perhaps Zoya, by the word Islam you and I mean different things and that is the source of confusion. I believe that by Islam you always mean wahabi interpretation of its laws. Anyway, lets not argue this further. Interiorally Sufism does transcend Islam. In fact being a mystical tradition, it transcends everything, even the ideas of ascetism, music etc. As Rumi says, "All except God doth perish."

I still contradict you A-ManESL xxx