Shiv Ling??

[nameless]

Ok. My dear friend, from your reply i can understand that u r an Athiest? Ok. First i congradulate you for being an Athiest because many people are muslim as because their father and fore fathers are muslims, many ara hindus as their ancestors are hindus, u thought about the existence of God and bacame an Athiest. Ok. Can you tell me how the world and the entire universe is created???

someone already in this forum introduced the same techninique and had recieved enough treatment for that.

Normally, when I meet an atheist, the first thing I like to do is to congratulate him and say, " My special congratulations to you", because most of the people who believe in God are doing blind belief - he is a Christian, because his father is a Christian; he is a Hindu, because his father is a Hindu; the majority of the people in the world are blindly following the religion of their fathers. An atheist, on the other hand, even though he may belong to a religious family, uses his intellect to deny the existence of God..

 

[Riverwolf]

Can you please tell me how can u worship Shiv Ling, It is being created having the symbol of reproductive organs of a male and female, Can it be a God??

The Linga isn't God; it's a symbol of God. Therefore, the Linga itself is not worshiped at all.

If I may borrow a metaphor used by Bruce Lee in Enter the Dragon, "It is like a finger, pointing away to the moon. Don't concentrate on the finger or you will miss all that heavenly glory."

 

[Riverwolf]

First you need to understand the concept of God in Hinduism as Islam,

For that you can refer to the dialogue happened between Dr. Zakir Naik and Shri Shri Ravishankar. Topic - "Concept of God in BHinduism and Islam", if you watch this you will come to know about more things, it happened in Banglore, India and lakhs of people attended the conference. I request you to watch the talk kindly first.

I am a Hindu(Vaishnava-Shaivite, to be more specific), and I understand the various concepts of God in Hinduism.

 

[nameless]

First you need to understand the concept of God in Hinduism as Islam,

For that you can refer to the dialogue happened between Dr. Zakir Naik and Shri Shri Ravishankar. Topic - "Concept of God in BHinduism and Islam", if you watch this you will come to know about more things, it happened in Banglore, India and lakhs of people attended the conference. I request you to watch the talk kindly first.

zakir naik is not dared to invite intelligent hindu scholars for debate, he does all the home work to challenge hindu scriptures and then he invites less intellectual hindu saints as guest. Once these saints are in the stage, zakir shows his real intention, he starts to question hindu scriptures and the saints gets cheated before the big crowd. To the dualists he asks about non-dualism and to non-dualist he asks about dualism. People often describe zakir naik is a juvenile in character.

And for the crowd, it does not matter. They are hungry to see anything or anyone praising islam. Hitler too had a big crowd behind him, that does not justifies him, same in the case of islamic terrorists. If you feels he is right just posts his views here, we shall discuss those .


zakir naik is a juvenile, liar, cheater and terrorism well wisher, he wants to create religious conflict through debates, Ravishankar realized the need for giving up debate as the environment was so dangerous, so he urgently without any further thinking accepted zakir's point, but actually what told in the book is all correct.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mx9jyi6CBuE

Zakir has his own explanations on vedas and buddhism. He alters vedic texts to develop confusion in ignorant people and also in favor of islam.

III. PHILOSOPHY OF BUDDHISM IS SELF – CONTRADICTORY: by zakir naik

As mentioned earlier, the main teachings of Buddhism are summarised in the Four Noble Truths:
(i) There is suffering and misery in life.

(ii) The cause of suffering and misery is desire.

(iii) Suffering and misery can be removed by removing desire.

(iv) Desire can be removed by following the Eight Fold Path.


This Philosophy of Buddhism is self-contradictory or self-defeating because the third truth says ‘suffering and misery can be removed by removing desire’ and the fourth truth says that 'desire can be removed by following the Eight Fold Path'.

Now, for any person to follow Buddhism he should first have the desire to follow the Four Noble Truths and the Eight Fold Path. The Third great Noble Truth says that desire should be removed. Once you remove desire, how can we follow the Fourth Noble truth i.e. follow the Eight Fold Path unless we have a desire to follow the Eight Fold Path. In short desire can only be removed by having a desire to follow the Eight Fold Path. If you do not follow the Eight Fold Path, desire cannot be removed. It is self contradicting as well as self-defeating to say that desire will only be removed by continuously having a desire.

 

[nameless]

some sources say Muhammed worshiped shiv linga

"Muhammad destroyed all 360 idols, but even he could not summon the courage to completely obliterate the Shivling in the Kaaba. He entered the temple and kissed the black stone. The Shivling was so sacred that the man who so detested idol- worship ended up kissing the largest idol in the Kaaba."

 

[ihsan_pno]

zakir naik is not dared to invite intelligent hindu scholars for debate, he does all the home work to challenge hindu scriptures and then he invites less intellectual hindu saints as guest. Once these saints are in the stage, zakir shows his real intention, he starts to question hindu scriptures and the saints gets cheated before the big crowd. To the dualists he asks about non-dualism and to non-dualist he asks about dualism. People often describe zakir naik is a juvenile in character.


Zakir has his own explanations on vedas and buddhism. He alters vedic texts to develop confusion in ignorant people and also in favor of islam.

My dear friend,

You said Dr. Zakir Naik is a liar and as a Juvenile, ok, according to you who is the most talented hindu scholar, can u get an appointment with him so that we can have a public debate.

Accepting failure is also a brave thing ok, u said Ravi Shankar accepted failure to avoid problems, always people give reasons for their failures, ok. That walk was fully based on the scriptures and the entire crowd were aware of the proofs and Zakir Naik mentioned that with reference. if you feel that Zakir Naik is interpreting the meaning and getting claps from the crowd, then u come with the right meaning and contact irf.net and proceed ur dialogue, Brother, if you want to say somebody is wrong you need to have the right thing with proof, without having a proof in your hand and simply telling Zakir naik is a liar liar is meaningless. he gave everything with meaning and reference quotation.

 

[ihsan_pno]

some sources say Muhammed worshiped shiv linga

"Muhammad destroyed all 360 idols, but even he could not summon the courage to completely obliterate the Shivling in the Kaaba. He entered the temple and kissed the black stone. The Shivling was so sacred that the man who so detested idol- worship ended up kissing the largest idol in the Kaaba."

Prophet Muhammed (PBUH) never worshiped that stone, simply he kissed the stone thats it, Islam forbids Idol worships, If i kiss a table it does not mean that i am worshiping table, and that is not the Shiv Ling, Dont speak without proofs

 

[Metempsychosis]

Prophet Muhammed (PBUH) never worshiped that stone, simply he kissed the stone thats it, Islam forbids Idol worships, If i kiss a table it does not mean that i am worshiping table, and that is not the Shiv Ling, Dont speak without proofs

Atleast the Hindus/Buddhist dont worship Carpets,floors,pillars,thin air and thoughts.

 

[nameless]

Prophet Muhammed (PBUH) never worshiped that stone, simply he kissed the stone thats it, Islam forbids Idol worships, If i kiss a table it does not mean that i am worshiping table, and that is not the Shiv Ling, Dont speak without proofs

you should then explain why, Muhammed destroyed all other idols, and kissed the black stone, to muhammed it was not just a stone or he would have destroyed it like he did to other idols, he found something special in it, what was that?

i dont think muhammed had some mental problems to simply destroy the all idols and kissed the black stone for no reason, certainly muhammed must have felt the both was necessary.

Islam says there is only one god, Muhammed might have reaslized that allah is actually lord shiva, so he destroyed idols of all other gods and kissed Shiv Linga. There is lots evidences that ancient Arabia had relationship with vedic culture.

 

[Kerr]

Prophet Muhammed (PBUH) never worshiped that stone, simply he kissed the stone thats it, Islam forbids Idol worships, If i kiss a table it does not mean that i am worshiping table, and that is not the Shiv Ling, Dont speak without proofs

Honestly, I don´t get what idol worship is. Could anyone please explain this to me? Is it that you worship stuff or that you use objects as symbols are representations of the divine? And what is so bad about it?

 

[Metempsychosis]

Honestly, I don´t get what idol worship is. Could anyone please explain this to me? Is it that you worship stuff or that you use objects as symbols are representations of the divine?

Idol worship is bowing to the creation.But Creation is different from the one and only Creator.Creation is man -made ,creator is self-made.

 

[Kerr]

Idol worship is bowing to the creation.But Creation is different from the one and only Creator.Creation is man -made ,creator is self-made.

But as I understand it, the "idols" are not actually worshiped but rather they represents something divine, become a symbol of the target of the worship, which helps humans to, well, worship? Read somewhere that it is that way Hinduism works and not "bowing down to the creation", and I cannot understand what is so bad about that. Of course, I may have misunderstood...

 

[nameless]

if you want to say somebody is wrong you need to have the right thing with proof, without having a proof in your hand and simply telling Zakir naik is a liar liar is meaningless. he gave everything with meaning and reference quotation.

Proof

Gautam Buddha - by Dr. Zakir Naik

Buddha was silent about the existence or non-existence of God. It may be that since India was drowned in idol worship and anthropomorphism that a sudden step to monotheism would have been drastic and hence Buddha may have chosen to remain silent on the issue of God. He did not deny the existence of God. Buddha was once asked by a disciple whether God exists? He refused to reply. When pressed, he said that if you are suffering from a stomach ache would you concentrate on relieving the pain or studying the prescription of the physician. "It is not my business or yours to find out whether there is God – our business is to remove the sufferings of the world".

irf.net - buddhism

ask any buddhist if this explanation is correct, already provided another proof in my previous post. So zakir is a big liar, and cheater !!!

 

[Metempsychosis]

But as I understand it, the "idols" are not actually worshiped but rather they represents something divine, become a symbol of the target of the worship, which helps humans to, well, worship? .

Yes religions themselves are means to worship.Hence they are the biggest idols.few may accept this fact and many may deny it.

Read somewhere that it is that way Hinduism works and not "bowing down to the creation", and I cannot understand what is so bad about that. Of course, I may have misunderstood...

U have correctly understood.Some people tend to see religions without studying any philosophy,hence their sole motive is to prove other religions to be wrong.But they only manage to draw a self-portrait.

Proof
So zakir is a big liar, and cheater !!!

BTW.A new section in religious debates should be dedicated to expose this fool.

 

[RamaRaksha]

Honestly, I don´t get what idol worship is. Could anyone please explain this to me? Is it that you worship stuff or that you use objects as symbols are representations of the divine? And what is so bad about it?

You are right these are mere symbols. Go to any Hindu home and you will see the same idols in the living room, but now they are decoration pieces. A Hindu will also have a puja room, a room for prayer, and these same idols are there, but now they are revered.

All the pujas, prayers, temples are for our benefit - God does not need any of those. She can hear us very well without any of those. But since we are human and a bit weak, we need these as a communication tool to help us connect with God.

Think of a photograph - some people look at them and laugh and cry. They know that these are mere representations of their loved ones, but they are important.

Prohibiting "Idol Worship" is a misnomer, actually even image worship is also "idol worship". The muslims are the best in this that they prohibit any images of God, but they have lowered themselves to idol worship when they insist that only their book is the right one - the book is now their idol.

 

[Riverwolf]

But as I understand it, the "idols" are not actually worshiped but rather they represents something divine, become a symbol of the target of the worship, which helps humans to, well, worship? Read somewhere that it is that way Hinduism works and not "bowing down to the creation", and I cannot understand what is so bad about that. Of course, I may have misunderstood...

The ancient Hebrews saw the bowing down to stone idols and thought they were worshiping the stone itself, rather than what it represented. That's really where the origin of the taboo against such worship came from, even though I don't think anyone actually worshiped the idol itself.

 

[Metempsychosis]

The ancient Hebrews saw the bowing down to stone idols and thought they were worshiping the stone itself, rather than what it represented. That's really where the origin of the taboo against such worship came from, even though I don't think anyone actually worshiped the idol itself.

It is taken out of Context as Muslims usually say.

 

[ihsan_pno]

Atleast the Hindus/Buddhist dont worship Carpets,floors,pillars,thin air and thoughts.

I think u dont understand English, look at my text i said that we use the carpet for prayer, as we use the bed to sleep, How idiocy ur thinking is? We can even pray without the carpet,

 

[Metempsychosis]

I think u dont understand English,

U dont have any understanding of the religion you are talking about.Your friend Zakir Naik himself is too juvenile to understand Hinduism/Buddhism

look at my text i said that we use the carpet for prayer, as we use the bed to sleep,

They use shiv ling for prayer,just as you use carpet.

How idiocy ur thinking is?

You are using Islam to understand Dharmic religions ,which itself is foolish.

We can even pray without the carpet,

Similarly,Hindus/Buddhist can pray without the idols.

 

[nameless]

How to perform salaat (prayer)

1. Body, clothes and place of prayer must be clean.
2. Perform wudu (ritual ablution) if needed.
3. Women are required to cover their hair.
4. Face the Qibla, the direction of Mecca.

So you people are praying to mecca and not to allah, or why it is necessary to face in direction of mecca? Mecca is the idol for muslims to offer prayer, they does idol worship fives times a day, more than any other religious practices.