shooting in OKC

[Cacotopia]

You'd think Americans would be curious as to why we have such a propensity to violence, nope....

 

[Kangaroo Feathers]

Mass shootings are in other countries, just not on epidemic levels. Last mass shooting in my country was with an illegal(stolen) gun. The country has 5 millions people, so at one point having 3 mass shootings in 3 years seemed pretty high. Lucky the others have been caught before they could carry out their plans.

Compare the rates of mass shootings globally with mass shootings in the US, among developed countries. I'm happy with my initial phrasing.

 

[Kangaroo Feathers]

You'd think Americans would be curious as to why we have such a propensity to violence, nope....

Maybe they're so used to being told "America is the best!" that America being the best at mass shootings just seems right?

 

[Kangaroo Feathers]

That would be pretty awesome and could solve a lot of problems, not gonna lie. President Andrew Jackson dueled Charles Dickinson to the death over an accusation of cheating a horse race and insulting his wife. Satan bless the USA.

This actually happened around this time of the year, too Andrew Jackson kills Charles Dickinson in duel - May 30, 1806 - HISTORY.com

Jackson was not prosecuted for murder, and the duel had very little effect on his successful campaign for the presidency in 1829. Many American men in the early 1800s, particularly in the South, viewed dueling as a time-honored tradition. In 1804, Thomas Jefferson’s vice president Aaron Burr had also avoided murder charges after killing former Treasury secretary and founding father Alexander Hamilton in a duel. In fact, Rachel’s divorce raised more of a scandal in the press and in parlors than the killing of Dickinson.

Seems to me, it's a tradition that could come back!

I would appreciate a return to dueling, especially judicial dueling, but it'd have to be with swords.

 

[Jumi]

Maybe they're so used to being told "America is the best!" that America being the best at mass shootings just seems right?

They took our title for that, but I don't envy them in this...

 

[Jumi]

From the US we hear that many of these shooters were showing signs before, why were they not taken seriously?

Here they changed their thinking after a spate of shootings.

https://yle.fi/uutiset/osasto/news/...shootings_a_year_prevented_in_finland/9047606

 

[Quetzal]

That cannot possibly be. Peoplek here keep telling me that gun owners
would be to cared to shoot, but if they did, they'd hit an innocent bystander.

THIS IS AN OUTLIER, THIS DOESN'T REPRESENT THE MAJORITY OF CASES... etc... yadda yadda... etc.

 

[Quetzal]

This happened earlier this evening. A man walked into a restaurant at Lake Hefner in Oklahoma city around 6:00 pm and opened fire wounding two that I know of at this point. Before he could do more damage he was confronted by an armed citizen who shot him dead. Thank God for this hero or it may well have been worse. So far the only dead is the bad guy. Friends and relatives are thanking the individual for saving lives of their loved ones that were in the restaurant. Any shooting is bad but it's good to have a positive outcome this time.

I am happy that the situation got contained. Two folks getting clipped it still two too many.

 

[Epic Beard Man]

That would be pretty awesome and could solve a lot of problems, not gonna lie.

Not gonna lie your comment is ignorant and I’m going to tell you why. What about the George Zimmerman’s of the world? What about those with ill intent who don’t like people that look like me? So it’s okay to have shootouts? What if your relatives were targeted in these shootouts could be kinda cool right? Hope you think closed caskets are kinda cool as well.

 

[Epic Beard Man]

Gosh! So those folks have all been proved wrong by this incident and you people in the US can just carry on, jogging along with everything as it is now? I never realised it could be so simple!
That's just wonderful........ but we might be asking for your comments when the next mass murder occurs........ ok?

This ignorant babble (you quoted) is not representative of those of us in the U.S.

 

[Revoltingest]

Yep, one good outcome (obviously not for the shooter) doesn't undo all the horrible carnage from crazy people with access to deadly weapons. The ultimate goal is not to kill the killer but to disarm him and to get him some help if the incident is the result of mental health issues. Making weapons harder to procure for those who, (to date) have been the perpetrators, would have been better....no? Nutters will always find 'weapons' but a knife or a iron bar is not going to do the same amount of damage as an automatic rifle....is it?

How many terrorists use guns? How is a gun going to stop a bomb or a plane?

This isn't an isolated incident though.
Armed self defense occurs regularly.
But knowing this or not would depend
upon one's favored news sources.

 

[Revoltingest]

Gosh! So those folks have all been proved wrong by this incident and you people in the US can just carry on, jogging along with everything as it is now? I never realised it could be so simple!
That's just wonderful........ but we might be asking for your comments when the next mass murder occurs........ ok?

I can forgive my friends on the other side of the pond for being unaware
that armed self defense is a common occurrence. I listen to the BBC, &
have never heard them cover justifiable self defense. Perhaps it just isn't
news when this happens...it certainly couldn't be an anti-gun rights bias.

I notice that when I offer workable solutions to gun violence here, you're
oddly silent about them....other than unproductive carping & chortling.

 

[Revoltingest]

This ignorant babble is not representative of those of us in the U.S.

Alas, yours is all too representative.

 

[Epic Beard Man]

I can also forgive those who are unaware that laws vary state to state. I can shoot someone dead for robbing a liquor store but if I do not have a proper CCW I will be arrested for discharging a firearm and perhaps manslaughter. Even if I have a CCW let’s say Orange County I can only carry in Orange County and not Los Angeles County.

I shoot a bad guy dead in Compton but my CCW is in Orange County I am still liable. Point being good guys still get punished depending on the state.

That is just one example....

What about 20 good guys in a dark room like a movie theater. Should there be a shootout if one bad guy lets off? What if my children get shot and killed cause good guys can’t aim in the dark? Smh

Edit: What if good guy thinks a group of kids sagging their pants are potential robbers and shoots them?

Not everyone with a weapon has the same intentions.

 

[Epic Beard Man]

Alas, yours is all too representative.

Nope just rational see above post

 

[Revoltingest]

Nope just rational see above post

You only posed a hypothetical worst case scenario.
.It's not rational to design public policy based upon that.

 

[Cacotopia]

THIS IS AN OUTLIER, THIS DOESN'T REPRESENT THE MAJORITY OF CASES... etc... yadda yadda... etc.

You could deduce that's the case when a majority of civilian gun owners only attend a safety course or a concealed carry/carry course. Not intense tactical training say a soldier or an officer of the law might receive.

Knowing how your firearm operates does not equate to being able to react to a violent situation where other people that mean you or others harm are also armed with firearms. I personally don't think a great many of the community of gun owners are capable of fully assessing a tactical situation and reacting accordingly. It is in my opinion that they are just as likely to hit innocent bystanders.

Let's take Orlando into account or a club situation, maybe you aren't gay, but regardless you are in a place where you are likely consuming alcohol, and that is going to affect your reaction time, your cognitive skills and most definitely your accuracy. So if another situation such as Orlando occurs and yeah the shooter gets killed but also it is discovered that 3 people got injured/killed by errant rounds.

Now we are getting into murky legal waters. involuntary manslaughter, drunk accidental shooting? Drunk self defense? Should there be laws that if you are a concealed or open carry person, don't drink and carry laws should be in place. If this is the direction the country is going where everyone needs to be packing heat.

 

[Revoltingest]

You could deduce that's the case when a majority of civilian gun owners only attend a safety course or a concealed carry/carry course. Not intense tactical training say a soldier or an officer of the law might receive.

This is why I advocate much more appropriate training for CCW holders.
The current level is inadequate even for safety....& this applies to cops also.

 

[Epic Beard Man]

You only posed a hypothetical worst case scenario.
.It's not rational to design public policy based upon that.

Worse case scenarios design laws that is why we take preventative measures. Again every so-called good guy do not have the same intentions and because they don’t why even think it’s okay to have shootouts in the open?

 

[Epic Beard Man]

This is why I advocate much more appropriate training for CCW holders.
The current level is inadequate even for safety....& this applies to cops also.

It still applies. If you plan on going out to consume alcohol even as a CCW holder it is best you leave your pistol at home.