Should a potential rape wictim be allowed to use deadly force?

[Kilgore Trout]

That's not what most people think of when it comes to rape, though. They prefer to contemplate the extremely rare but far more titillating idea of rape by a masked stranger leaping out of a dark alleyway.

Yeah, this was the kind of rape I was talking about, which I agree, is far from the norm. Essentially, perpetrators of victim-based crimes almost always look for an easy target. The type of person who would shoot somebody in self-defense would probably not be making themself an easy target in the first place.

I think it's definitely a moot question when it comes to rape commited by an acquaintance, as very few people would consider using deadly force against their husband, boyfriend, etc. anyway, regardless of the circumstance.

 

[Desert Snake]

Not even worth taking seriously...

Alceste, you obviously don't know anyone who has been a victim of rape, so let's not speak about things we know nothing about, 'k? 'k.

No, any man that argues with a woman about rape is not worth being taken seriously. That's all I have to say, and that's all I'm contributing to this thread.

 

[Alceste]

Not even worth taking seriously...



Alceste, you obviously don't know anyone who has been a victim of rape, so let's not speak about things we know nothing about, 'k? 'k.

FH, every woman knows women who have been a victim of rape. (Every man does too). Three of my closest female friends have all been raped. Two by boyfriends and one by a brother. Their interests are not well served by this type of discussion. Arguing that rape victims ought to have perpetrated extreme violence on their assailants to prevent the rape dovetails quite nicely with the widespread mentality of blaming the victim.

 

[Acim]

Glad we found another area in our collective experience where God is pre-conceived to be absolutely, and undeniably powerless to do a damn thing about it.

And my apologies for bringing G into this area. Could be 'non-G' and still be discussed, by I tried that earlier, and this thread has devolved into, "killing / violence is sometimes very good. Scum deserve that. Violence can solve our problems. Let's do more of that."

Congratulations, you just empowered rapists to believe their 'way' is actually not a wrong way, relatively speaking.

Just need to speak the language you all are comfortable with for the rape to be 'good rape.' IOW, don't get caught by leaving the evidence behind / alive.

 

[Alceste]

Yeah, this was the kind of rape I was talking about, which I agree, is far from the norm. Essentially, perpetrators of victim-based crimes almost always look for an easy target. The type of person who would shoot somebody in self-defense would probably not be making themself an easy target in the first place.

I think it's definitely a moot question when it comes to rape commited by an acquaintance, as very few people would consider using deadly force against their husband, boyfriend, etc. anyway, regardless of the circumstance.

I agree. For the benefit of anyone who wants to minimize the risk of being raped, mugged or otherwise harassed by a masked stranger leaping out of an alleyway, I read a great article on what they tend to look for. To sum it up, walk smoothly straight and tall with your chin up, and look like you know exactly where you're going. Slouching along and looking at your feet is asking for trouble.

 

[Kilgore Trout]

I agree. For the benefit of anyone who wants to minimize the risk of being raped, mugged or otherwise harassed by a masked stranger leaping out of an alleyway, I read a great article on what they tend to look for. To sum it up, walk smoothly straight and tall with your chin up, and look like you know exactly where you're going. Slouching along and looking at your feet is asking for trouble.

I guess mom actually had some useful advice for once.

 

[MoonWater]

I agree. For the benefit of anyone who wants to minimize the risk of being raped, mugged or otherwise harassed by a masked stranger leaping out of an alleyway, I read a great article on what they tend to look for. To sum it up, walk smoothly straight and tall with your chin up, and look like you know exactly where you're going. Slouching along and looking at your feet is asking for trouble.

do you have a link for this article or know where I might find it? I'd like to read it.

 

[Archer]

No, any man that argues with a woman about rape is not worth being taken seriously. That's all I have to say, and that's all I'm contributing to this thread.

Any man who has dealt with it up close and personal is just a qualified as a woman who has not been raped and has with it up close and personal.

Entire families deal with this subject not just the woman. Yes the woman has had the hardest part but having a kid, young woman (or man for that matter), girlfriend, sister, wife.................. cry on your shoulder and tell you how dirty and/or guilty they feel is one hell of a qualification. Telling lies like it will be okay or it will get better is qualification. Being rejected at times and holding her is qualification and anyone who has issue with that has a mental problem.

Men do not feel many of the emotions but they damn sure deal with it and they feel the impact. They see the changes that the victim goes through that they are not aware of. They comfort them as they cry themselves to sleep and hold them when they are awakened by a nightmare and at times they are pushed out and away. Many times this ends with withdraw into themselves, into drugs or even suicide.

Any person that can make a statement such as yours has no experience dealing with these things and should not make assumptions about others experiences. Or perhaps they just have no clue what they are talking about and just want to get in on a conversation and call names for fun. This is no joking matter.

 

[Archer]

Congratulations, you just empowered rapists to believe their 'way' is actually not a wrong way, relatively speaking.

Now that is sick and twisted. In this thread (though it has been said that rapists deserve death) have you seen anyone say killing was the only solution? No; though it should be.

Don't twist thing. You are being an Apologist.

 

[ChristineES]

I think a rape victim has a right to stop the attack in any means he or she can find, and I am sorry to say, that may include killing the attacker. As others have said, a woman (or a man) has a right to protect him or herself.

 

[Alceste]

do you have a link for this article or know where I might find it? I'd like to read it.

I read it years ago. I can find something else for you though using the power of google!

Attracting Assault - Victims Nonverbal Cues - Grayson Stein

This is not the article I read, but it is the study that article was about, so it's better.

 

[Desert Snake]

To "archer", I stand by my statement.



any man who argues with a woman about rape should not be taken seriously.

 

[Desert Snake]

Btw, I'm not going to argue with you, and your not going to convince me otherwise.

 

[Draka]

To "archer", I stand by my statement.



any man who argues with a woman about rape should not be taken seriously.

Not all women have been raped or know other women personally who have been raped. Some of us can only imagine. Some men have been raped and some men personally know and have been support for women who have been raped. Therefore, I do believe your stance is the thing that should not be taken seriously.

 

[Archer]

To "archer", I stand by my statement.



any man who argues with a woman about rape should not be taken seriously.

Really? well I did send someone this PM but I think I will just let it hang out there but edited a little. You can guess the rest.

My **** and ****** ** *** were Raped and I deal with it. My **** was raped and I deal with it. I have cousins and friends who have been raped and molested. I do deal with it every day. Do not presume to tell me anything and furthermore I never said that killing was the only option but it is the final option.

Feel free to forward this to a mod or post it on the open forum. You can**** ** ***** *** and go to **** with your ***** rapist ******************************************************************.

I live with the victims dammit.

 

[Pegg]

Not all women have been raped or know other women personally who have been raped. Some of us can only imagine. Some men have been raped and some men personally know and have been support for women who have been raped. Therefore, I do believe your stance is the thing that should not be taken seriously.

I would say rape and sexual violence is very common occurrence, so common that you likely do know someone who has been abused in some way...they just may not have ever told you .

 

[pwfaith]

There is nothing wrong with that but honestly I feel Judo would or some type of MMA would be better.

Just remember when an attacker is coming at you and they are larger their goal is not to fight it is to subdue. One well placed strike can end it and in some cases kill.

Assuming they come at you from the front and don't take you off guard from behind. It's difficult to give one well placed strike (of the karate type - which was my point) when you are taken ahold of from behind and they are stronger than you. I was referring to using karate moves, they won't always help in an attack by a rapist, if they come up from behind you and take you by surprise, which is why I was impressed that these women were in the class to learn better "strikes" for a totally different type of attack than what they had been training for in karate.

Back to my point. No self defense class in the world is going to stop a larger determined attacker; unless you get lucky. Only years of practice and even then if you are close enough to strike you can be stricken. Best to avoid any physical contact.

Oh I completely agree, prevention and education are ones BEST self-defense but even all the prevention in the world and education are no guarantee one will NEVER be in such a situation. Which is why some training in self-defense is beneficial. As I think you said earlier, the first goal is to get away, not necessarily to kill (although that would help but it's not always realistic).

Here is an example: If an attacker in reasonably good shape with a height of 6'2" and 260 pounds came after you how could you defend? Black belt? Well your distance weapon is your legs and legs are slow compared to hands though they can do more damage. Now you kick at this guy, he takes the blow, catches the leg and puts you down. It is brawling time and you will lose unless you get lucky.

Exactly the point *I* was making The karate defense was NOT beneficial in such a situation where they were caught from behind. Our karate class teaches the goal is to get away, not fight, but if you have to fight, be trained in how to do so well. I don't know but I completely believe some of those women could definitely take out a 6'2", 260 lb man. Would it be easy? Probably not but certainly possible. I have seen them fight our Shihan. He's not a tall man but very stout. In a karate fight, these women could fair pretty well if they had to, imo. However in an attack of a rapist type, it is totally different. The defense is different. That was my point. Both are essential to learn. It's not about strength, it's about knowledge.

 

[Archer]

I say Judo:

Judo, which is translated as the "gentle way", teaches the principle of flexibility in the application of technique. This is the flexible or efficient use of balance, leverage, and movement in the performance of Judo throws and other skills. Skill, technique and timing, rather than the use of brute strength, are the essential ingredients for success in Judo. For example, in Judo classes you may learn how to give way, rather than use force, to overcome a stronger opponent.
The principles of Judo, such as "Maximum Efficiency" and "Mutual Welfare and Benefit", can also be used in our dealings with others in life. The ultimate goal in Judo is to develop oneself to the maximum extent possible, always striving for perfection, so that you can contribute something of value to the world.

The original Judo Information Site

Not because it is better than Karate but because it teaches a different style that is more useful in a close situation where contact has been made such as being attacked from behind.

 

[Draka]

I would say rape and sexual violence is very common occurrence, so common that you likely do know someone who has been abused in some way...they just may not have ever told you .

I've had a couple bad sexual things happen to me and a few of my friends. Nothing that happened to me I would qualify as full on rape. A couple friends have had incidents but as close as we may be it's not something that is openly discussed often. And while I may know more people who have been raped, if they haven't told me about it and their experience, then I'm hardly one to speak to it. There may be others in the same boat, if it's not revealed to them, how would they know about it? My point was simply that it is possible for a man to be just as equally, if not more, experienced when it comes to dealing the fallout of rape. For SKKF to state otherwise is just nonsense.

 

[The Sum of Awe]

It may be foolish to ask this but it is possible:
Would you still say yes they can kill the rapist if the rapist is the female and the male is being raped?