Should a woman have to see a sonogram before receiving an abortion?

[jamaesi]

It would make the procedure a little more important than a trip to the dentist. These clinics try and tell women their child is just a few cells. They make their decision based on that assumption.

Once again, a rather sexist statement that implies women have no idea of the gravity of the situation they are in.

We're women, perfectly capable and comprehending human adults, not ignorant little children. We don't need a guilt trip at an already difficult time.

 

[angellous_evangellous]

Are abortion clinics telling women the truth that their fetus is just a few cells?

I don't know of any pro-lifers who operate abortion clinics.

Should women have to look at the sonogram to make an informed decision?

Absolutely not.

 

[angellous_evangellous]

I don't want to make criminals out of doctors and women who are not ready to have a child. I don't feel that I can tell women what to do just because I feel a certain way about this issue. I do believe in womens rights, I don't believe they should have 9 months to make up their mind however. Any baby that could live outside the mother who is terminated, I believe this is murder.

Not if you even begin to entertain the possibility of forcing women to watch or hear something that offends her sensabilities.

 

[ladyhawke]

What i'd like some clarification on is WHY is it just about the women,they don't always make this choice on their own,so do you drag the fathers in as well and make them look at a sonnagram,do you think it would make any differance to his feelings.But as always the "blame" call it what you like, always lies at the feet of the woman..It takes two to make a baby and sometimes two to get rid of it,the men have a role in this as well.

 

[McBell]

What i'd like some clarification on is WHY is it just about the women,they don't always make this choice on their own,so do you drag the fathers in as well and make them look at a sonnagram,do you think it would make any differance to his feelings.But as always the "blame" call it what you like, always lies at the feet of the woman..It takes two to make a baby and sometimes two to get rid of it,the men have a role in this as well.

Interesting.
So what is your opinion about the father having equal say over the abortion?
I know, before a woman can get an abortion, she must have a consent form from the father of the unborn she is carrying.
That way the father has equal say in the matter.

 

[ladyhawke]

i'm in full support of the father having an equal say in what happens it is his child after all..but from discussions i've had with people i know that men genarally are just too happy to walk away...if the father wants the child and the mother doesn't then things would i admit get very difficult, in theory i personally would have the child and let the father bring him/her up...but underneath i would worry about him changing his mind...and then you have a whole other lot of problems.

 

[spirittalker101]

Oh I see! Only females have the right to say if they can grotesquely murder their own offspring. Now that's motherly love! So much for the innocent Child who dwells within their body. Well what if the baby is a female? Does she have any "choice" to be killed or not? Answer No! She is never given a chance. So what you mean is that the Mother will "dictate" who is worthy to live and who isn't according to her judgement alone . Nice one Adolf.

You don't have to face any bodily change, hormone changes, or anyother changes by saying that a woman HAS to carry a baby if she is pregnant. What dwells in their body at the time of the abortion is a fetus. Yes it is human in composition but nothing more. It does not feel or think, and with out the mother would be dead anyways. even once the heart starts beating it is not viable outside of the womb. Really sir you don't know the first thing that happens to a womans body when she becomes pregnant. You see an embryo that you call a child. That isn't fair.

What do you think then of the women that are forced (that is what you are wanted to do) to deliver a child that they don't want and they end up killing it once it is out of her body either on purpose or accidently because she didn't want it but so ego tripping man made it so that she had no choice? How would you feel if you daughter can to you raped and scared and pregnant from it and you told her that she had to carry the spawn of this physco for 9 long months and give it to an adoption agency? How do you think she would feel waking up every day for 9 long months with this intruder in her body?

Thanks for the ad hom....I'm not the one saying that women are too stupid to make such a decision.

 

[spirittalker101]

That's just foolish... when only female children are allowed to be murdered in the womb, only THEN would I agree with you.

Killing the child does not take away the horror of the rape.... while I pray I could take away the pain, killing the child does only one thing: kills a child.

Just FYI, sometimes those children of a rape are not aborted....

Sometimes they grow up....

Sometimes, for instance, they marry a poor sap like me.... and give me two wonderful children of our own.

Sometimes.

Peace be with you,
S

That is wonderful, but that is an exception not the norm. It has nothing to do with if the fetus is boy or girl. it has to do with the fact that as a women, you go thru more then any man could understand during a pregnancy.

 

[spirittalker101]

This thread is not about outlawing abortion. It is about making a well thought out informed choice.

It is about making the woman feel even worse about what is going on than she already does. It isn't a fly by night decision, as many make it sound like. it is something that the woman must still live with for the rest of her life.

 

[spirittalker101]

You look at a x-ray before you set a broken bone right? Why?

You don't have to look at the x ray. the dr looks at the x ray. I've never been told I HAD to look at something before the drs worked on me. They took my appendix out and I wasn't forced to see what it looked like.

 

[yossarian22]

What I think Reverend Rick is arguing is that you should at least look at something before you kill it.

 

[athanasius]

You don't have to face any bodily change, hormone changes, or anyother changes by saying that a woman HAS to carry a baby if she is pregnant. What dwells in their body at the time of the abortion is a fetus. Yes it is human in composition but nothing more. It does not feel or think, and with out the mother would be dead anyways. even once the heart starts beating it is not viable outside of the womb. Really sir you don't know the first thing that happens to a womans body when she becomes pregnant. You see an embryo that you call a child. That isn't fair.

What do you think then of the women that are forced (that is what you are wanted to do) to deliver a child that they don't want and they end up killing it once it is out of her body either on purpose or accidently because she didn't want it but so ego tripping man made it so that she had no choice? How would you feel if you daughter can to you raped and scared and pregnant from it and you told her that she had to carry the spawn of this physco for 9 long months and give it to an adoption agency? How do you think she would feel waking up every day for 9 long months with this intruder in her body?

Thanks for the ad hom....I'm not the one saying that women are too stupid to make such a decision.

Wow now that's motherly love! Your saying the baby in your womb is nothing more than a intruder in your body. An intruder kind of like a parasite or a disease huh? Sad really! Did you ever hear of adoption? And yes I have a problems with seeing how two wrongs make a right. So using your same logic, If Someone did something horrible to me and you remind me of that horrible thing, then I should be allowed to grotesquely kill you. There is no logic to your thought at all. How does two wrongs make a right. Raping someone is horrible, but killing a innocent human life because she reminds you of it is even worse. That is why we have adoption my dear. Birthright is a wonderful place that actually helps women makes the proper life decisions!

Women are not to stupid and many make good decisions. Many many women keep the babies or give them up for adoption instead of murdering them grotesquely. But many women act out of selfishness and kill the unborn child for convenience sake. Mother Teresa said it best when she said "it is a poverty when a mother decides to Kill her own child for the sake of convenience". Abortion is selfish and it is the Holocaust of our day as Pope John Paul II would say!

 

[ladyhawke]

But many women act out of selfishness and kill the unborn child for convenience sake. Mother Teresa said it best when she said "it is a poverty when a mother decides to Kill her own child for the sake of convenience". Abortion is selfish and it is the Holocaust of our day as Pope John Paul II would say!

you can bet your last dollar thet if men were put in the same position they would make the same decsions...men are equally as selfish.. hence the massive numbers of single mothers struggling to raise kids on their own.

 

[Quiddity]

you can bet your last dollar thet if men were put in the same position they would make the same decsions...men are equally as selfish.. hence the massive numbers of single mothers struggling to raise kids on their own.

And I'm willing to bet Athanasius condones both. But any act of "this is mine only" (speaking of the infant in the women's body) sure does lessen the incentive for a male to want to stick around.

 

[ladyhawke]

And I'm willing to bet Athanasius condones both. But any act of "this is mine only" (speaking of the infant in the women's body) sure does lessen the incentive for a male to want to stick around.

Can't say i know any women who would go down the "this is mine only" route,but i know plenty of men who didn't need much incentive to leave the women too it(either raising the kids on their own or having an abortion on her own) men need to take some responsibilty here as well as i've said before it takes 2 people to make a baby.

 

[spirittalker101]

Wow now that's motherly love!

I'm not a mother yet. It has nothing to do with the ability to be a mother. Forcing someone to be something they are not is worse.

Your saying the baby in your womb is nothing more than a intruder in your body. An intruder kind of like a parasite or a disease huh? Sad really!

That is right. And you are wrong it is NOT a baby until it is born. Until that time it is either an embryo or a fetus. Baby insinuates that it can live on it's own. It is a parasite, stealing it's nutrients from the woman.

Did you ever hear of adoption?

I could ask you the same thing. I know many people that can't get kids yet I also know that if that child ends up older and in the system they don't get adopted they get shuffled from place to place and are just stuck in a loop that never ends.

And yes I have a problems with seeing how two wrongs make a right. So using your same logic, If Someone did something horrible to me and you remind me of that horrible thing, then I should be allowed to grotesquely kill you. There is no logic to your thought at all. How does two wrongs make a right. Raping someone is horrible, but killing a innocent human life because she reminds you of it is even worse. That is why we have adoption my dear. Birthright is a wonderful place that actually helps women makes the proper life decisions!

Big difference there dude. As an adult and me being an adult we can take steps to never have to see each other again. As a woman with an unwanted pregnancy there is nothing she can do to get away from it.

Women are not to stupid and many make good decisions. Many many women keep the babies or give them up for adoption instead of murdering them grotesquely. But many women act out of selfishness and kill the unborn child for convenience sake.

You make assumptions about why these women make the choice that they do. It is really none of your business what others do.

How many kids have you raised? I'm sure 5 or 6 of the 100's of thousands in the system would love you to come and save them.

Mother Teresa said it best when she said "it is a poverty when a mother decides to Kill her own child for the sake of convenience". Abortion is selfish and it is the Holocaust of our day as Pope John Paul II would say!

I'm not catholic, I never will be catholic. Please no more with pope john paul ii. And Mother teresa never had a baby nor dealt with an unwanted pregnancy. She was a nun. she spouted what was taught to her in the convent.

 

[Quiddity]

Can't say i know any women who would go down the "this is mine only" route,but i know plenty of men who didn't need much incentive to leave the women too it(either raising the kids on their own or having an abortion on her own) men need to take some responsibilty here as well as i've said before it takes 2 people to make a baby.

Then I'm guessing you are willing to incorporate into law that men just as much rights to the baby as women do? That is, if you want them to step up to the plate and be responsible.

 

[spirittalker101]

you can bet your last dollar thet if men were put in the same position they would make the same decsions...men are equally as selfish.. hence the massive numbers of single mothers struggling to raise kids on their own.

I would like to take it a step further and say that if men went thru what women do that this conversation would never come up and the population wouldn't be so large.

 

[athanasius]

I'm not a mother yet. It has nothing to do with the ability to be a mother. Forcing someone to be something they are not is worse.


That is right. And you are wrong it is NOT a baby until it is born. Until that time it is either an embryo or a fetus. Baby insinuates that it can live on it's own. It is a parasite, stealing it's nutrients from the woman.









I'm not catholic, I never will be catholic. Please no more with pope john paul ii. And Mother teresa never had a baby nor dealt with an unwanted pregnancy. She was a nun. she spouted what was taught to her in the convent.

God help any women that could call her child a parasite. I'm sure glad my Mother didn't think of me this way. I'm also glad Mary didn't think of Jesus this way. Mary ark of the covenant gilded by the Holy Ghost Pray for us sinners now and at the hour of our death.

 

[Quiddity]

How many kids have you raised? I'm sure 5 or 6 of the 100's of thousands in the system would love you to come and save them.

I'm one of them that did indeed get saved. I very much doubt that if I was conscious enough to know any better I'd say "mom I understand, just end my life". I can't say I can completely feel what a women is going though (even though I've been there for more then one considering it) but nothing I've heard has ever justified the ending of an innocent life.