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Should a woman have to see a sonogram before receiving an abortion?

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dawny0826

Mother Heathen
I think you make a lot of assumptions about the women who are getting abortions. I know there are women out there that are irresponsible, but you'd be surprised how may aren't. Blanket statements like this bother me.

Respectfully, I don't think I made any more assumptions than the assumptions made in the post I was responding to.

I've seen the statistics and I'm not ignorant to the fact that woman do become pregnant while taking precautions.

Still, even when I had pregnancy scares...I always had a plan in place. In the event that I DID become pregnant...I was ready to deal with the consequences. I doubled on my contraceptives. I charted my cycles. I took every necessary precaution but pregnancy was still a very real issue to me. I understood that even with the precautions I took, that pregnancy could still result and I was ready to take the responsibility for the consequences, if there were negative consequences.

I won't apologize for making blanket statements with this issue. There's not much in this life that heats me like this topic does. I really DO respect the views of others. I wish I could adopt a mindset that people should be able to do what they want as long as it doesnt hurt me but this really DOES hurt me.

If I was in the position where I couldn't handle a pregnancy...even if I was using birth control or other contraceptives were involved...I would abstain from sex before I would go through with it. Because the life of someone innocent means more to me than sex. And I know not everyone values the human embryo in the same light that I do. I feel in my core that the unborn are precious, even at the earliest stages. I realize not everyone cares but I do.
 

McBell

Unbound
Are abortion clinics telling women the truth that their fetus is just a few cells?
Yes.

Should women have to look at the sonogram to make an informed decision?
What information is a sonogram going to provide?
And is the information something that is vital to making such a decision?


Seems to me that it is merely an attempt to illicit an emotional reaction.
An appeal to emotion tactic.


My answer is that unless you can show that there is some information that the sonogram provides, that is essential to the decision and not merely an appeal to emotion tactic, I will have to say no, there is no need to force her to look at a sonogram before an abortion.
 

Gentoo

The Feisty Penguin
Truly, I hope my posts aren't the cause of that.

No. The whole thread in general. This abortion debate is not going to be solved in our generation, I don't think. But aside from that, I find it appalling that some people (a general "people", no one in specific, honest) can't look beyond their own thoughts and beliefs to put themselves in someone else's shoes for even a minute. That the thought of "what's good for one person is good for the group". It makes me ashamed to be a human.
 

lilithu

The Devil's Advocate
Are abortion clinics telling women the truth that their fetus is just a few cells?
No. :rolleyes: Clinics that provide abortions are providing a service for women who choose to have an abortion. They're not trying to convince women to do so.


I don't want to make criminals out of doctors and women who are not ready to have a child. I don't feel that I can tell women what to do just because I feel a certain way about this issue. I do believe in womens rights, I don't believe they should have 9 months to make up their mind however.
Straw man argument. I've lost count of how many times I've posted this info and yet anti-abortion people keep trying to make it seem like irresponsible women are waiting until the last trimester to casually have abortions.

88% of abortions are performed within the first trimester.
Only 0.04% of abortions are performed in the third trimester. 0.04% 4 in 10,000.
(data from the Alan Guttmacher Institute)
 

Pariah

Let go
88% of abortions are performed within the first trimester.
Only 0.04% of abortions are performed in the third trimester. 0.04% 4 in 10,000.
(data from the Alan Guttmacher Institute)

Thank you for this, Lilithu. :clap

Humankind, it seems, holds little respect and little faith in a woman's mind.
 

lilithu

The Devil's Advocate
I think you have it backwards, some women are lacking respect and faith for humankind.
What happened to:
"I don't want to make criminals out of doctors and women who are not ready to have a child. I don't feel that I can tell women what to do just because I feel a certain way about this issue. I do believe in womens rights"
 

Reverend Rick

Frubal Whore
Premium Member
What happened to:
"I don't want to make criminals out of doctors and women who are not ready to have a child. I don't feel that I can tell women what to do just because I feel a certain way about this issue. I do believe in womens rights"

Nothing changed. That is what I think, not what I want, feel, or believe.
 

jamaesi

To Save A Lamb
If that is what it would take to save one child, I would gladly do it. I don't feel guilty about having wood furniture. If it was exotic rain forest wood, that would be different.

I plant trees every spring and water them all summer long. I have some monster wood furniture.

Steak, no problem. I raise cattle and do the things you want me to watch. T-Bone....YUM!

Gasoline, do I really drown a Polar bear with every tank? I use a lot of gasoline and love Polar bears!

I wear American made shoes shirts under wear and pants. The fruit of the loom plant is close by to me and I buy seconds direct from the plant. Carhartt plant is about 150 miles away. Redwing makes my boots. I have a clear conscience there, even my sweat shirts and coats are Carhartt.

I catch my own fish. Lake Cumberland has great big fish. I caught one bigger than my Grandson last year. I donate to conservation efforts and our lake has a fishery that I am a supporter of. I volunteer time there as well.

Every year I participate in a lake clean up as well for a whole weekend.

I buy my fruit from an old man who has a stand and his own orchard that he has worked in for 30 years.

Our landfill is state of the art. We recycle and the waste is used to make electricity.

You've completely missed my point- should people be legally guilt-tripped for every action they take that could have a negative effect on other life?

So, you equate human life to that of a fish? (Reading from one of your own analogies)
If we're going to play "one of these things is not like the other," you equate a zygote to a born human?

I equate life to life- however, I never said that human life = fish life. That's an assumption. If you think overfishing, which will lead to barren oceans in the very near future, doesn't hurt human life you might want to chat to people and communities whose livelihoods and diets depend on fishing and fish.

dawny0826 said:
If that's the way you feel, that's your right but with all due respect, there SHOULD be guilt involved when you're ending HUMAN LIFE, especially if that life was created as a result of YOUR OWN negligence.

As for assumptions...

Should I feel guilty for my "negligence" when I was date-raped? Had I not miscarried, I would have gotten an abortion.

Not everyone get pregnant through "negligence."

dawny0826 said:
I don't care how intelligent these women are or how well they've thought the abortion process through. They're choosing to end life. Respectfully, I can't fathom how the value of animal life equates to that of human life. I respect your views but I really don't understand.
Because... they're both alive? Both wish to stay alive?

dawny0826 said:
Further, isn't abortion often an unnecessary and expensive procedure? Too often, the pregnancy could have been prevented if these intelligent women made intelligent decisions before they chose to spread their legs.

To some people, it is not "unnecessary."

Even though people are intelligent people make mistakes or bad things happen to them- do people deserve to be punished for every mistake and every bad thing that happens to them?

Respectfully, I don't think I made any more assumptions than the assumptions made in the post I was responding to.

What assumptions did I make in my previous post?

Reverend Rick said:
I think you have it backwards, some women are lacking respect and faith for humankind.

I really can't even think of what to say to that. My mind is just screaming "SEXISM" over and over again...
 

gnomon

Well-Known Member
Are abortion clinics telling women the truth that their fetus is just a few cells?

Should women have to look at the sonogram to make an informed decision?

No. Everyone should already be knowledgable of the birth process prior to puberty. Once a woman decides to have an abortion the sonogram would be moot.
 

Ðanisty

Well-Known Member
I won't apologize for making blanket statements with this issue. There's not much in this life that heats me like this topic does. I really DO respect the views of others. I wish I could adopt a mindset that people should be able to do what they want as long as it doesnt hurt me but this really DOES hurt me.
dawny, I'm not saying this to offend you, but to make a point. Your views on women who have abortions really do hurt me too. You're not the only person who's affected by other people's beliefs. I don't think that gives me the privilege to make decisions for other people though. I know you're speaking from your heart and I respect that, but your words are pretty hurtful to me. I've never openly said what I think of abortion because I know how much it would hurt other people's feelings to hear it. Would it be that hard to at least acknowledge that all women who get abortions aren't irresponsible? A blanket statement really doesn't help your argument.
 

Halcyon

Lord of the Badgers
No. Everyone should already be knowledgable of the birth process prior to puberty. Once a woman decides to have an abortion the sonogram would be moot.
I agree with that statement.

She knows what a fetus is, and she knows what she is doing, she doesn't need a guilt trip to make her feel worse about what was probably already a very hard decision.

It seems quite an evil and malicious idea to me, although i can see it from the pro-lobby's perspective, it still seems unnecessary and cruel.
 

Pariah

Let go
Either way, sonograms are unnecessary once the decision is made.
If need be, require embryology as part of the biology curriculum in schools to teach students what grows inside a woman when she is pregnant.
 

bouggle

Member
i dont agree with abortion at all! a baby has a heart the minute its concieved. calling it a fuetus is a horrible word, but seems to be used to make people think its not a baby yet. i'm not sure on wether or not mums should be shown their babies on an ultrasound before aborting it as it may change their mind which is good, but then if their sure they want an abortion theres no need for them to have an ultrasound. if they really dont want a baby, they can easily give it up for adoption when the child is born, so that baby can have a life and not get its life snatched away from it, when it has no choice! abortion is the worst possible way to die for a baby, and i hope they change the legal limit for abortions soon, as its disgusting that people can have them up to 6 months, when the baby can survive!
 

Halcyon

Lord of the Badgers
In the UK we have a cap on abortion at 24 weeks, the stage when the embryo's brain may start developing some form of awareness.

Is there no limit in the US?
 

bouggle

Member
In the UK we have a cap on abortion at 24 weeks, the stage when the embryo's brain may start developing some form of awareness.

Is there no limit in the US?

how can you call a baby an embryo? its a human being, just because its in the mothers womb doesnt mean its not alive! :eek:
 
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