Should a woman's bodily autonomy be disregarded when it comes to pregnancy?

[Deidre]

In many cases, "pro-life" is the best euphemism ever created for making crackdowns on reproductive rights sound noble and ethically commendable. The fact that it is so often used in reference to reproductive rights as opposed to things like wars and famines speaks volumes about the dogmatic aspects inherent in it.

true, a lot of 'pro life' people are pro-death penalty...hmmmm

I don't like the phrase pro life, as it's largely a conservative Christian chess piece. (and I lean on the pro life side, but don’t care for the definition of it, because it implies that if one wishes to see abortion remain legal (which I do), then somehow that same individual doesn’t care about life, in general. So, wish we could do away with the terminology)

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

In many cases, "pro-life" is the best euphemism ever created for making crackdowns on reproductive rights sound noble and ethically commendable. The fact that it is so often used in reference to reproductive rights as opposed to things like wars and famines speaks volumes about the dogmatic aspects inherent in it.

This is why I try to use "anti-choice" rather than "pro-life". I even try to avoid "anti-abortion", since many of the groups that are opposed to making abortion illegal are also in favour of things that tend to increase abortion rates, such as abstinence only sex ed or opposed to measures that would make it easier for women to choose not to have an abortion, such as reasonable job-protected parental leave laws.

 

[Revoltingest]

No short phrase will do the positions justice. I like both "pro-abortion" & "pro-choice" for mine. The other side I describe as "anti-choice". But what I find most divisively insipid are: "baby murderer", "the war on women"

 

[Koldo]

No short phrase will do the positions justice. I like both "pro-abortion" & "pro-choice" for mine. The other side I describe as "anti-choice". But what I find most divisively insipid are: "baby murderer", "the war on women"

I prefer 'pro-abortion' and 'anti-abortion'. It avoids use any fancy framing. Or in the long form: 'pro-legalization of abortion' and 'anti-legalization of abortion'.

 

[MysticSang'ha]

Not having regrets doesn't mean the decision doesn't bring lasting pain. (for many women, not all)

In my experience, not even many women. There are a few who will express regret when being in conversation with known anti-choice friends or family to save face.

My work as an escort for women trying to get from their car to the clinic, shielding them from anti-choice activists, from being accosted and pushed into vans, they want their identity to be hidden precisely because of the social stigma.

I'm talking about hundreds of women I've spoken with...who want their choice to remain anonymous because of the shunning (at best), or assault (at worst)...even women who ask me to swear to secrecy since they themselves are anti-choice activists.

My friends at first weren't upset about their decisions, until a few years later.

I don't doubt that. That does not speak for all or even most women who have terminated their pregnancies. Most women I've worked with or spoken to have been grateful for having safe and accessible abortion services and didn't have to resort to a hanger.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

I prefer 'pro-abortion' and 'anti-abortion'. It avoids use any fancy framing. Or in the long form: 'pro-legalization of abortion' and 'anti-legalization of abortion'.

"Anti-abortion" is often inaccurate, as I mentioned before. "Anti-legalization of abortion" is accurate but lengthy to say.

 

[Revoltingest]

"Anti-abortion" is often inaccurate, as I mentioned before. "Anti-legalization of abortion" is accurate but lengthy to say.

"Anti-choice" seems the best short term to describe "anti-legalization of abortion".

 

[Koldo]

"Anti-abortion" is often inaccurate, as I mentioned before. "Anti-legalization of abortion" is accurate but lengthy to say.

Can you refer to the post where you mention this?

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Can you refer to the post where you mention this?

Right here:

This is why I try to use "anti-choice" rather than "pro-life". I even try to avoid "anti-abortion", since many of the groups that are opposed to making abortion illegal are also in favour of things that tend to increase abortion rates, such as abstinence only sex ed or opposed to measures that would make it easier for women to choose not to have an abortion, such as reasonable job-protected parental leave laws.

 

[leibowde84]

well said.
yes, freedom comes with a price, always.
which the pro-abortion camp would have people otherwise believe. I don't think it should be made illegal, but I don't like the lies that are told to women in order to coax them into having abortions, when frankly, there could have been other options given to them. Abortion is a business...and a political chess piece...so, it behooves whoever has a vested interest to those ends, to see more of them to take place every year.

I think a large part of the issue with this debate is incorrect and misleading labels like the one that you used ("pro-abortionists"). PLEASE DON'T USE THE TERM "PRO-ABORTION." IT IS NOT ONLY INSULTING AND INSENSITIVE ... IT IS A MISLEADING AND INCORRECT LABEL.

Sorry for the caps, but I feel extremely passionate about this labeling issue. The pro-life movement will never gain ground if it refers, incorrectly, to pro-choicer's as being in favor of abortion, when, in actuality, they are merely in favor of choice (as are you).

I am extremely pro-choice but certainly anti-abortion, as I know that all pro-choice people I have talked to generally are. So, why do you refer to them as being pro-abortion? I'm not playing semantics, I think you are unconsciously (I hope) insulting them for something they are innocent of.

What do you mean by "the lies that are told to women in order to coax them into having abortions"? Beyond examples of this that come up from time-to-time (which will always be the case, as some Doctors are pretty terrible people), I did not know it was an issue. Can you provide some specifics as to when this has happened and what is lied about? Thanks for your help. I appreciate it.

 

[Deidre]

In my experience, not even many women. There are a few who will express regret when being in conversation with known anti-choice friends or family to save face.

My work as an escort for women trying to get from their car to the clinic, shielding them from anti-choice activists, from being accosted and pushed into vans, they want their identity to be hidden precisely because of the social stigma.

I'm talking about hundreds of women I've spoken with...who want their choice to remain anonymous because of the shunning (at best), or assault (at worst)...even women who ask me to swear to secrecy since they themselves are anti-choice activists.



I don't doubt that. That does not speak for all or even most women who have terminated their pregnancies. Most women I've worked with or spoken to have been grateful for having safe and accessible abortion services and didn't have to resort to a hanger.

I don't disagree, I'd like to see more options available to women, in the form of safe birth control, and education, too ...

 

[leibowde84]

I prefer 'pro-abortion' and 'anti-abortion'. It avoids use any fancy framing. Or in the long form: 'pro-legalization of abortion' and 'anti-legalization of abortion'.

It is extremely misleading to use those terms. I, for example, am anti-abortion, but very pro-choice. You do realize that the vast majority of pro-choicers are anti-abortion, right? They find abortion morally wrong, but the choice must exist legally. Please don't use incorrect, insulting, and misleading labels. You are better than that. Be an adult.

 

[Deidre]

I think a large part of the issue with this debate is incorrect and misleading labels like the one that you used ("pro-abortionists"). PLEASE DON'T USE THE TERM "PRO-ABORTION." IT IS NOT ONLY INSULTING AND INSENSITIVE ... IT IS A MISLEADING AND INCORRECT LABEL.

Sorry for the caps, but I feel extremely passionate about this labeling issue. The pro-life movement will never gain ground if it refers, incorrectly, to pro-choicer's as being in favor of abortion, when, in actuality, they are merely in favor of choice (as are you).

I am extremely pro-choice but certainly anti-abortion, as I know that all pro-choice people I have talked to generally are. So, why do you refer to them as being pro-abortion? I'm not playing semantics, I think you are unconsciously (I hope) insulting them for something they are innocent of.

What do you mean by "the lies that are told to women in order to coax them into having abortions"? Beyond examples of this that come up from time-to-time (which will always be the case, as some Doctors are pretty terrible people), I did not know it was an issue. Can you provide some specifics as to when this has happened and what is lied about? Thanks for your help. I appreciate it.

No, I understand...I meant pro-choice, not pro-abortion...that was an unintentional mistake.

I don't care for pro-choice or pro-life as the terminology, to be honest...but I guess it's all we have to work with for now.

Beyond this point, I have my own opinions as you and as most do on these issues, and they are not cut/dry. Having said that, I don't wish to spar over the issue, to be honest. Probably fairest to say we have our own set of experiences with the topic, and believe what we believe for various reasons.

 

[Koldo]

It is extremely misleading to use those terms. I, for example, am anti-abortion, but very pro-choice. You do realize that the vast majority of pro-choicers are anti-abortion, right? They find abortion morally wrong, but the choice must exist legally. Please don't use incorrect, insulting, and misleading labels. You are better than that. Be an adult.

What part of 'Or in the long form: 'pro-legalization of abortion' and 'anti-legalization of abortion' didn't you comprehend?
I am using the short form ( pro-abortion ) to mean the same thing as the long form.

 

[Koldo]

"Anti-abortion" is often inaccurate, as I mentioned before. "Anti-legalization of abortion" is accurate but lengthy to say.

I see. However, since the major disagreement revolves around abortion, I find it more accurate to use labels related to abortion itself.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

I see. However, since the major disagreement revolves around abortion, I find it more accurate to use labels related to abortion itself.

In that case, I would call people who advocate for policies that result in more unwanted pregnancy (e.g. abstinence-only sex ed) and that make life difficult for women who choose not to abort, especially single or economically disadvantaged new mothers, to be "pro-abortion"... regardless of their position on the legality of abortion.

 

[Koldo]

In that case, I would call people who advocate for policies that result in more unwanted pregnancy (e.g. abstinence-only sex ed) and that make life difficult for women who choose not to abort, especially single or economically disadvantaged new mothers, to be "pro-abortion"... regardless of their position on the legality of abortion.

You certainly could. However, that is not how I would use the term.

 

[leibowde84]

I see. However, since the major disagreement revolves around abortion, I find it more accurate to use labels related to abortion itself.

It is most certainly misleading and offensive, no matter your intent.

 

[Koldo]

It is most certainly misleading and offensive, no matter your intent.

Do you find the label 'anti-life' to be any less misleading and offensive?

 

[leibowde84]

Do you find the label 'anti-life' to be any less misleading and offensive?

Yep. Sure do. What's your point? Can't you just say "pro-choice" instead? It is obviously the most accurate way to classify the movement to preserve a woman's right to "choose" what happens inside her own body. It is also the only thing that can be said about everyone who opposes taking away this right from women. Thus, any other classification would be inferior ... assuming you are attempting to be honest.