Should Abortion Be Made Illegal Based On The State You Live In?

[shmogie]

It might be helpful if anti-feticide rights people got better educated about the issues. Stop making demonstrably false claims like Scripture puts abortion in the same category as murder, when obviously it doesn't.

People who don't see the Bible as a sophisticated moral guide book, like me, get ignored while the knee jerk baby killers respond to poorly informed religious folks.
Tom

I know the issue pretty well. I have not quoted the Bible, or any rekligious texts on the matter, just the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution.

I made no claims about what the Bible says on this matter.

I think or post demonstrates that it is not a position on the right to life that is being responded to, but rather religious beliefs.

Since you don't seem to be a religious person ( I could be wrong ) you are not a target that is being hunted.,

 

[Father Heathen]

I think it is as random and arbitrary as all accepted aborts nowadays.

Your position is emotional rather than rational.

 

[epronovost]

That could be said also about many adult people.

Not if you take into account what the characteristics are in the first place. It's impossible to deny those characteristics to adult, children, babies and even late term fetuses.

 

[columbus]

Since you don't seem to be a religious person ( I could be wrong ) you are not a target that is being hunted.,

I guess I'm supposed to feel better that you aren't actively hunting me?

What a Christian thing to say.
Tom

 

[columbus]

Your position is emotional rather than rational.

So is yours.

I remember a few years back when Baby Heathen was a grape sized fetus. Nobody corrected you for applying the term baby to an utterly dependent fetal human.

But I'm commonly told that referring to humans that are too young to care for themselves as "babies" is being "emotional".

You don't seem to see a reason to correct them.
Tom

 

[shmogie]

I guess I'm supposed to feel better that you aren't actively hunting me?

What a Christian thing to say.
Tom

IF you are pro life, and IF you are not religious, the abortionists will pretty much ignore you, because THEY are hunting Christian pro lifers.

 

[epronovost]

IF you are pro life, and IF you are not religious, the abortionists will pretty much ignore you, because THEY are hunting Christian pro lifers.

I don't care about your religious belief. I'm only interested in women's right to have access to legal, safe and elective abortion services. You may be Christian, Muslim, atheist or some variety of neo or meso-pagan, if you oppose this right, I think you are deeply wrong.

 

[columbus]

IF you are pro life, and IF you are not religious, the abortionists will pretty much ignore you, because THEY are hunting Christian pro lifers.

I'm more hard core prolife than most of the conservative Christians I know about.

Hunting? Seriously?
You think pointing out your hypocrisy on the internet qualifies as "hunting".

Trust me dude. There have been times I've been very careful walking out to my car in a dark parking lot. Because I didn't want to get whacked violently by Christian people who hated my opinions(which I'm very free with).
I do not trust Christian people and their worship of "The Prince of Peace", because I know them too well.
Tom

 

[shmogie]

I'm more hard core prolife than most of the conservative Christians I know about.

Hunting? Seriously?
You think pointing out your hypocrisy on the internet qualifies as "hunting".

Trust me dude. There have been times I've been very careful walking out to my car in a dark parking lot. Because I didn't want to get whacked violently by Christian people who hated my opinions(which I'm very free with).
I do not trust Christian people and their worship of "The Prince of Peace", because I know them too well.
Tom

You know them all? You know your experience reflects on them all?

What hypocrisy of mine have you pointed out in RF?

If I said that all homosexuals were abysmally promiscuous, because I have a cousin like that, am I reflecting anything more than an unsubstantiated opinion?

The abortionists seek out Christians, because of deep seated biases against religion. Since most of your world view doesn't clash with theirs, you are less fun to slam.

 

[columbus]

You know them all? You know your experience reflects on them all?

I don't know every Nazi. But I do make generalizations.
Tom

 

[Sand Dancer]

Yes,I did not want to overwhelm him. One at a time is my mom's to. And there is nothing he general belief that a body is not alive until after the first "breath of life". But your example is one where in many cases the interpretation was changed.

Yep. They conveniently forget these things or didn't know they were there to being with.

 

[Sand Dancer]

What you are referencing occurred almost 4,000 years ago, at a specific time, at a specific place, for a specific people.

If you were a perfect being, whose judgement could never be wrong, with a sense of justice that was infallible, and who could never err, I guess you could kill too.

It happened many times. Isn't all of the Bible important and infallible? Yahweh is far from perfect. Don't give a deity a free ride just because he's your favorite.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Yep. They conveniently forget these things or didn't know they were there to being with.

And I hate my tablet. I see two errors, one that was definitely caused by my tablet's hand autowrong feature in the post that you quoted.

 

[columbus]

Can you explain what do you mean with this?

I'm not @Subduction Zone , but I can.
Nowhere in the Bible is elective abortions even mentioned, much less an offense.
I believe that there are multiple reasons for this.
For one, it was vanishingly rare. Children, especially boys, were a valuable asset.

Also, there was no such thing as a safe abortion. They didn't even have coat hangers.
But mainly because they didn't consider a child alive until s/he drew a breath. They equated breath with life and spirit. Primitive view, but they were primitive people. So nobody could kill a fetus, much less murder one.

There you have it. Rights for the unborn is a modern concept based on science and secular ethics, not Scripture.
Tom

 

[shmogie]

I'm not @Subduction Zone , but I can.
Nowhere in the Bible is elective abortions even mentioned, much less an offense.
I believe that there are multiple reasons for this.
For one, it was vanishingly rare. Children, especially boys, were a valuable asset.

Also, there was no such thing as a safe abortion. They didn't even have coat hangers.
But mainly because they didn't consider a child alive until s/he drew a breath. They equated breath with life and spirit. Primitive view, but they were primitive people. So nobody could kill a fetus, much less murder one.

There you have it. Rights for the unborn is a modern concept based on science and secular ethics, not Scripture.
Tom

Sorry, but no. There are verses in the Bible that support the personhood of the unborn.

Rights for the unborn came about because of The Christian concept of not killing the innocent.

Much of so called secular ethics began as Christian morality in one form or another.

There is little that I agree with in Catholic theology, however I agree with them here. They have supported the idea of the personhood of the unborn for many centuries, long before secularism existed.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Sorry, but no. There are verses in the Bible that support the personhood of the unborn.

Rights for the unborn came about because of The Christian concept of not killing the innocent.

Much of so called secular ethics began as Christian morality in one form or another.

There is little that I agree with in Catholic theology, however I agree with them here. They have supported the idea of the personhood of the unborn for many centuries, long before secularism existed.

Much of the so called Christian ethics came from older sources. You seriously do not think that Jesus invented the Golden Rule, do you? Morals evolve over the years. They are not handed to us by a make believe friend.

 

[columbus]

Sorry, but no. There are verses in the Bible that support the personhood of the unborn.

Name one?

I don't think there are, and I'm quite familiar with the Bible. I'm confident that you are reading things into the text because you want them to be there, as opposed to them actually being there.
Tom

 

[1213]

I'm not @Subduction Zone...
But mainly because they didn't consider a child alive until s/he drew a breath. ...

I agree that it is possible that they didn’t have same idea about this matter then. But, I think that kind of arguments are not good for abortion, because they are not useful in every situation. They sound too much as excuses. Or what do you think, if one asks other to hold his breath, would it be then ok to kill him, because he is not breathing? It is always possible to find loop holes to justify own evil actions. And most arguments for abortion seem to be just like that, excuses that are against the spirit of the law. I have understood that the goal of the law has been to protect life and now it has been turned to fit to people’s own desires so that no evil is bad and good is evil.

That I why I think we are living dark times and this seems to have come true:

Because iniquity will be multiplied, the love of many will grow cold.
Matt. 24:12

World is probably nowadays eviler than it was before the flood.

 

[1213]

There are quite a few passages and verses that support this. Some have tried to reinterpret them, especially after Roe v. Wade. For example the test of an unfaithful wife is an example of a chemical abortion administered by a priest. To try ad claim otherwise is being disingenuous at best.

Ok, the problem with that is that I think it can be interpreted wrongly.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Ok, the problem with that is that I think it can be interpreted wrongly.

I know. Countless anti-abortion people make those mistakes. One can have valid reasons to be anti-abortion. Referring to the Bible is not a very good reason.