Should Abortion Be Made Illegal Based On The State You Live In?

[McBell]

I provided the link. Science has backed up the Bible in that the fetus is alive at conception.

What do you have? Nothing, but your comments which are wrong. It's wrong again as atheists are usually wrong .

.
Who do you think is claiming it isn't alive?

 

[Father Heathen]

As others may have already pointed out, it's telling that those who oppose abortion also tend to oppose things that would prevent abortion (sex ed, birth control, etc.). They also tend to oppose social programs that assist struggling mothers and/or their children. It seems that for most of them it's about control, not compassion.

 

[QuestioningMind]

I provided the link. Science has backed up the Bible in that the fetus is alive at conception.

What do you have? Nothing, but your comments which are wrong. It's wrong again as atheists are usually wrong .

Has anyone EVER argued that a fetus isn't alive? You are aware that BOTH the egg and semen cells are alive even BEFORE conception, right?

 

[McBell]

Why does that seem so odd to me?

I'm not sure that "medical conditions" is the right classification -- I rather think it's more like a "fact of life." And I think that we are justified in trying to alter the "facts" of our lives for our own purposes.

https://www.quora.com/Is-pregnancy-considered-a-medical-condition-Why-or-why-not

 

[epronovost]

Why does that seem so odd to me?

I'm not sure that "medical conditions" is the right classification -- I rather think it's more like a "fact of life." And I think that we are justified in trying to alter the "facts" of our lives for our own purposes.

In Canada it's legally considered a "serious medical condition". Medical conditions aren't de facto "bad things" they are deviation from the norm of your metabolism that might represent a risk to you health. Pregnancies do change a woman's metabolism from its norm and can be extremely dangerous. In the US, pre-natal care is so bad it's more dangerous to be pregnant than working on a construction site.

 

[McBell]

I think murder is already illegal. The problem is that some don’t think all people are really humans.

Who has claimed that a human fetus is not human?

 

[columbus]

.
Who do you think is claiming it isn't alive?

I've seen it here on RF.
I don't remember who it was. But yeah, there's been RF members insisting that fetal children aren't alive.
Or at least that it can't be proven(to their satisfaction) that unborn children are alive.
And it wasn't religious people referring to ancient culture or Scripture. It was modern folks.
Tom

 

[Aupmanyav]

"Indian women set to get right to abort pregnancy in 6th month, instead of the 5th." (Bill already passed by the Parliament)
'The law, which was necessary for women’s reproductive rights, will now allow them to abort any time during pregnancy till the 24-week gestation period. Currently, the law allows medical abortion only till 20 weeks of pregnancy,' Information and Broadcasting Minister Prakash Javadekar said.

The only condition will be that the woman has to seek permission from two doctors, including a government doctor, for the procedure.
Indian women set to get right to abort pregnancy in 6th month, instead of the 5th

Personally, I am not in favor of abortion except in special cases (we already have a law for that).

 

[sun rise]

The right to life for the fetus would trump your argument. It also means repealing the abortion rights.

That's a religious judgement .

 

[sun rise]

As others may have already pointed out, it's telling that those who oppose abortion also tend to oppose things that would prevent abortion (sex ed, birth control, etc.). They also tend to oppose social programs that assist struggling mothers and/or their children. It seems that for most of them it's about control, not compassion.

That's a key point. Now if those who oppose abortion were to be totally in favor and insist on helping women who are pregnant legally, medically and financially where necessary and including arranging adoptions where the mother does not want the baby, then they'd be consistent in being "pro life" in a compassionate way.

 

[Iymus]

There are ways to make abortion inconvenient and almost unacceptable without making it illegal.

 

[shmogie]

That's an oxymoron.
If a killing is legal, it's not murder.

Murder is a very subjective term. I, personally, consider most capital punishment in the USA to be unjustified killing. But it's legal, so it isn't murder.
Tom

You are right, as to the applicable words.

Yet, the premeditated killing of another person in common law is murder.

I once, as a young man, was unsure about capital punishment. Then, for a short period of time I had a man who had just killed three people, in my custody. The day before, after being paroled for 2nd degree murder, he hijacked a car from two women, obtained a gun, and wound up in my county.

He killed in absolute cold blood two police officers and a teenage boy.

I saw the pain and anguish of the family members at the hospital where one victim died, and the wounded killer was being treated.

The suspect had dead eyes like a shark, and showed absolutely no remorse for what he had done.

Capital punishment deters 100% a murderer from killing again.

The life of an innocent is worth more than all the lives of first degree murderers combined.

If that suspect had given me reason to shoot him, the world would be a much better place at that instant.

 

[columbus]

Yet, the premeditated killing of another person in common law is murder.

Do you apply that standard to the Bush administration and the invasion of Iraq?
I do.

Once again, I believe that you are doing exactly what causes me to avoid the word murder in certain conversations. Killings you personally disapprove of are murder, the ones you don't disapprove are not murder. It's just too subjective to be a useful word, it's too much about emotional reactions and too little about objective reality.
Tom

 

[shmogie]

That's a key point. Now if those who oppose abortion were to be totally in favor and insist on helping women who are pregnant legally, medically and financially where necessary and including arranging adoptions where the mother does not want the baby, then they'd be consistent in being "pro life" in a compassionate way.

I agree, to an extent. Certainly a pregnant woman should be helped if she refuses to kill her baby. I believe that most pro lifers agree.

However, rationalization to make murder palatable is a moral error. Killing an innocent by abortion is wrong, period, unless the life of the mother is truly at serious risk.

 

[shmogie]

Do you apply that standard to the Bush administration and the invasion of Iraq?
I do.

Once again, I believe that you are doing exactly what causes me to avoid the word murder in certain conversations. Killings you personally disapprove of are murder, the ones you don't disapprove are not murder. It's just too subjective to be a useful word, it's too much about emotional reactions and too little about objective reality.
Tom

No, killings that are in violation of the Constitution are murder.

The word is non emotional, it simply reflects a killing that should be illegal based upon the law.

It may be an opinion, but it reflects the seriousness of the opinion.

 

[sun rise]

I agree, to an extent. Certainly a pregnant woman should be helped if she refuses to kill her baby. I believe that most pro lifers agree.

However, rationalization to make murder palatable is a moral error. Killing an innocent by abortion is wrong, period, unless the life of the mother is truly at serious risk.

Declaring abortion to be murder is not a secular opinion but a religious one and not all religious people agree especially before viability. Ensoulment - Wikipedia has a discussion about when the developing fetus is ensoulded.

Secular people state that religious anti-abortion people are trying to impose religious judgement on a secular society.

And while anti-abortion people agree that pregnant women should be helped, I have no evidence of a serious attempt to provide all women who need it practical help: financial, emotional, legal etc.

What I see is propaganda.

 

[Earthtank]

As a general rule, i think abortion should be illegal except, in special circumstances

 

[columbus]

As a general rule, i think abortion should be illegal except, in special circumstances

That's rather vague.
Why do you think that?

Don't get me wrong, I agree. But still....
Tom

 

[Earthtank]

That's rather vague.

Which was why i said "as a general rule" I was intentionally being vague

Why do you think that?

Don't get me wrong, I agree. But still....

Because far, far, far (did i say far yet?) too many people are using abortion a form of birth control due to their stupid decisions or because they change their minds a few months in. That's the short and straightforward answer. I could go in more detail but, i think you are smart enough to see where i am going.

 

[epronovost]

No, killings that are in violation of the Constitution are murder.

The Constitution doesn't mention any laws about killing. It doesn't talk about this sort of issue. It talks about the organisation and function of a government. You seem to be confusing it with the Criminal Code. The Criminal Code will state what sort of killing is legal and those that are murders. Abortions are legal in the US thus they aren't murders.