Should abortions require partner consent?

[Ðanisty]

The simple fact is that one cannot choose not to be a parent if a child is born. The father can't have a right to come between a woman and her doctor, so the final choice is completely the woman's. The baby is her body until the baby is born. Once the baby is born, there is no room for a man to skirt his responsibility if the woman can prove that the baby is his.

Well, actually you can choose not to be a parent after the child is born...that's what adoption is all about. Work with this scenario for a minute. A man does not want a child and has made it clear to the mother before she's had the child that he wants nothing to do with it and he thinks the best option is abortion. She says no because she doesn't agree with abortion. She has at that moment made the decision to be a parent. He, however, already made his own decision. He does not want to be a parent. I think he should then have the right to say, "well, that is your choice, but if you have this child, it is your child and I take no parental responsibility and receive no parental rights regarding this child." He should then be able to walk away, no strings attached. Afterall, she's the one who made the financial, emotional, etc. decision to be a single parent. I'm not saying that is the way it is now...I'm saying that is the way it should be.

 

[pdoel]

The simple fact is that one cannot choose not to be a parent if a child is born. The father can't have a right to come between a woman and her doctor, so the final choice is completely the woman's. The baby is her body until the baby is born. Once the baby is born, there is no room for a man to skirt his responsibility if the woman can prove that the baby is his.

That's what I have a problem with.

A woman gets all the decisions. Have the baby. Have the abortion. Have the baby and give it up for adoption. Keep the baby. She makes all the decisions. If she doesn't want the baby but the father doesn't, then it's "her body" and her decision. If she wants the baby and the father doesn't, he has no choice.

But when the baby is born, then it's just as much his as it is hers, and he's responsible?

I don't think it should work that way. In this country, because it's "her body" she gets to make all the decisions. Until of course, the baby is born, then it's his responsibility too. I don't think women should be able to have their cake and eat it to.

 

[Ðanisty]

If she wants the baby and the father doesn't, he has no choice.

I agree that he should have that choice. He should have the choice to walk away with no responsibility or rights to that child provided she knew from the start that he didn't want to have the kid.

 

[angellous_evangellous]

I don't think women should be able to have their cake and eat it to.

They don't. The woman is the only one who can be abandoned with the child. It's a fair trade.

 

[pdoel]

They don't. The woman is the only one who can be abandoned with the child. It's a fair trade.

They can? A woman can abandon a child just as easily as a man can.

 

[Ðanisty]

They can? A woman can abandon a child just as easily as a man can.

Really? How exactly can a woman abandon something that's growing inside her? For 9 months a man is able to seperate himself from the child and a woman is not unless she has an abortion which she can really only do in the first trimester.

 

[Faint]

Well, actually you can choose not to be a parent after the child is born...that's what adoption is all about. Work with this scenario for a minute. A man does not want a child and has made it clear to the mother before she's had the child that he wants nothing to do with it and he thinks the best option is abortion. She says no because she doesn't agree with abortion. She has at that moment made the decision to be a parent. He, however, already made his own decision. He does not want to be a parent. I think he should then have the right to say, "well, that is your choice, but if you have this child, it is your child and I take no parental responsibility and receive no parental rights regarding this child." He should then be able to walk away, no strings attached. Afterall, she's the one who made the financial, emotional, etc. decision to be a single parent. I'm not saying that is the way it is now...I'm saying that is the way it should be.

I rather like this point! As a male, I would love to run around knocking up women without being required to fulfill the financial responsibilities of a father. It's pretty much what my genes tell me to do anyway. Hell, I'd could probably have had an entire legion of offspring by now! Imagine all the little Faints running around.

I wonder........ if the law worked this way, would women be getting more abortions, knowing that they could not demand their former partner's paycheck?

I don't think it should work that way. In this country, because it's "her body" she gets to make all the decisions. Until of course, the baby is born, then it's his responsibility too. I don't think women should be able to have their cake and eat it to.

Yeah, I don't like this either, but it's kind of the terms we males agree to when we get naked with the ladies. On the flip-side, I can't really imagine getting someone pregnant and then demanding that she gets an abortion. I will definitely suggest it (as it happened back in high school, wink wink) but I accept that risk anytime I bed a girl.

 

[wmam]

I would think that for ones of faith that agree that once they are baptized and are covered by the spirit that knowing that their bodies are no longer theirs then this would all be a non-issue. Abortion would be out of the question as would sex outside of marriage. For both of these are sin. One for murder and the other fornication. So I really don't have anything to add or help with this thread and am wondering now why I even posted. :slap:

 

[Quiddity]

If only the fetus had the capacity. Would you ask him/her?

 

[mr.guy]

Vic, are you ok? You seem tired...oh, wait, that's last your post. (sorry, couldn't resist)

But seriously, why derail this thread when there are TONS of other ones where you can more relevantly guilt pro-choicers?

 

[Quiddity]

Vic, are you ok? You seem tired...oh, wait, that's last your post. (sorry, couldn't resist)

But seriously, why derail this thread when there are TONS of other ones where you can more relevantly guilt pro-choicers?

Don't want to do that. I will refrain.

 

[fromthe heart]

It takes 2 to make a baby so the dad should at least be consulted...but he should NOT be able to demand the outcome despite it being HIS child...I agree with Victor in too bad the baby doesn't have a say...I say baby because usually by the time a woman finds out she's expecting there is already a little heart beating with the will to live. Just my opinion.

 

[linwood]

It`s odd that the MODs themselves seem to be unable to resist turning this thread into a pro-life debate.

Could we stay on topic please?

 

[wmam]

Mat 19:5 And said, For this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife: and they twain shall be one flesh?
Mat 19:6 Wherefore they are no more twain, but one flesh. What therefore Elohim hath joined together, let not man put asunder.

That includes Doctors at abortion clinics.

 

[fromthe heart]

It`s odd that the MODs themselves seem to be unable to resist turning this thread into a pro-life debate.

Could we stay on topic please?

I'm sorry linwood...that was not my intent but I do see where you are coming from in your view of how that seems to be. It was just a personal feeling on my part...I'll try to be more careful.

 

[jamaesi]

I disagree. When it comes to child support, custody and alimony (in the case of divorce) the system definitely favors the woman.

I know of quite a few people who were divorced, and the guy pays so much in alimony / child support that he can't even support himself. The wife keeps the house, gets the kid, doesn't work, and the guy is working several jobs just to be able to afford an apartment near the ghetto.

I've known guys who couldn't even make the alimony/child support payments and ended up in jail because of it. Not cause he refused to pay, but simply because he couldn't.

Yes, the system is definitely flawed. But not in favor of the men.

My mother lost everything in order to get cusdoty of me from my abusive father.

And he does quite well even still. He just bought a new truck and a motorhome so he could travel! Not to mention his new house, boat, motorcycle, Stingray car, and two cars.

As for us, we have an old station wagon that's in the shop at least once a month and we can't afford to get a new one. By the way, my mother has worked every day since she divorced him (most of the time TWO jobs) until a few months ago when her employer died of cancer. (And now she is spending the time that we get unemployment and still have health insurance (and that will be fun to get again because my health is so poor no insurance company will take me in) to get a back surgery and shoulder surgery that we couldn't afford to get for YEARS while she was working.)

Sometimes he remembers to send the child support check! Sometimes! It's tough to remember when you spend most of your time drinking. (And the courts decided I get child support until college ends because of the situation).


Women still aren't equal. Women still make less than men and are more likely to be discriminated and have violent crime committed against them for just being women.

 

[jamaesi]

If only the fetus had the capacity. Would you ask him/her?

Let's ask scared 16 year old girls who could have a whole future ahead of them when they are READY to bring children into their lives if they want. Let's ask abused women what they want- especially having them tell their abusive spouse about their decision because the courts really do jack in protecting them.

When a woman wants to get an abortion it's usually not because she's a murdering whore. When a woman doesn't want to tell the father it's usually not because she's a cold-hearted b****.

 

[pdoel]

Really? How exactly can a woman abandon something that's growing inside her? For 9 months a man is able to seperate himself from the child and a woman is not unless she has an abortion which she can really only do in the first trimester.

Oh, I didn't realize the only time someone could abandon a child was when it was in the womb.

 

[pdoel]

My mother lost everything in order to get cusdoty of me from my abusive father.

Well, that's definitely unfortunate, but not the norm. There are times where women will do whatever it takes to get away from an abusive husband/father. I commend your mother. Sounds like getting away and being safe was more important than the financials, as it should be. But, that's really not the norm.

Women still aren't equal. Women still make less than men and are more likely to be discriminated and have violent crime committed against them for just being women.

That may or may not be true, but really has nothing to do with this debate.

 

[pdoel]

Let's ask scared 16 year old girls who could have a whole future ahead of them when they are READY to bring children into their lives if they want.

If the 16 year old girl isn't READY to bring a child into the world, then maybe they should think of that BEFORE having unprotected sex. Or sex period.