Should art get government subsidies ...

[MoonWater]

So shermana you think that the NEA should go away just because they support Obama?

 

[Shermana]

So shermana you think that the NEA should go away just because they support Obama?

If there was a government funded organization that propped up Republican issues, would you think its right? I wouldn't. I don't think the government should be allowed to spend money on causes that are notorious for socially supporting its agenda regardless who is in charge. Basically no different than Soviet funding for their propaganda posters.

If anything it deprives those who are legitimately interested in objective social-based art while rewarding those who become lackeys to the system.

 

[Revoltingest]

We're talk'n about 2 different NEA's here.

 

[MoonWater]

Then the government wouldn't really be able to spend money on anything would it? Or am I misunderstanding you?

 

[Shermana]

We're talk'n about 2 different NEA's here.

Yes, yes yes I didn't actually read the article I admit it, I was just looking for a left source and was in a hurry.

 

[Revoltingest]

Yes, yes yes I didn't actually read the article I admit it, I was just looking for a left source and was in a hurry.

Both need abolishing anyway.

 

[Shermana]

Then the government wouldn't really be able to spend money on anything would it? Or am I misunderstanding you?

Of course you misunderstand me, let me try again:

Let's start with a simple question: Is the government allowed to spend money on Campaign funds for the President?

 

[MoonWater]

Of course you misunderstand me, let me try again:

Let's start with a simple question: Is the government allowed to spend money on Campaign funds for the President?

"Of course" I misunderstand you? There's no need to talk down to me like I'm an idiot. If you wish to be condescending then I will not continue this discussion with you.

 

[waitasec]

government is the great fiction, through which everybody endeavors to live at the expense of everybody else.
~frederic bastiat

free expression is in direct opposition of government

without supporting the arts we might as well be living in a world without color...it's in humane to not support the arts...as it plays an integral role in society...

we are, after all, beings who imagined going to the moon and did it.

 

[Shermana]

"Of course" I misunderstand you? There's no need to talk down to me like I'm an idiot. If you wish to be condescending then I will not continue this discussion with you.

I don't see anything condescending or rude by saying "of course". My apologies if you took my tone to be talking down.

The point is, the government already cannot spend on Presidential campaigns, so why should it be allowed to spend money on organizations that are basically not so subtle fronts for the campaign? Quite the difference from spending on programs that aren't indirectly (or directly) affiliated with the party's campaign process.

 

[MoonWater]

I don't see anything condescending or rude by saying "of course".

strange I don't see how it could be anything but... but then that could just be past experience talking. I've been bullied a lot so I tend to jump to conclusions and get defensive even when it may be uncalled for As soon as I saw that "of course you misunderstand me" my mind placed a condescending tone onto the sentence, my apologies of that was not your intention.

The point is, the government already cannot spend on Presidential campaigns, so why should it be allowed to spend money on organizations that are basically not so subtle fronts for the campaign?

How is the NEA a "basically a front for the campaign"? Wait before answering that, are you talking about the national education association or the national endowment for the arts?

If it's the latter, which is what I'm talking about,... from my brief research it looks like they focus mainly on grants and funding art exhibitions. Is it because they are trying to garner voter support for obama? I think it would be only natural for the program to try and support the president most likely to support it's interests, just as if focus on the family were a government funded organization( i know it isn't but it's the first conservative organization that came to mind) I would fully expect them to seek more support for Romney.

 

[Shermana]

strange I don't see how it could be anything but... but then that could just be past experience talking. I've been bullied a lot so I tend to jump to conclusions and get defensive even when it may be uncalled for As soon as I saw that "of course you misunderstand me" my mind placed a condescending tone onto the sentence, my apologies of that was not your intention.

I edited in an apology if you took my tone as talking down, I meant "of course" as in "Indeed", not like "Of course you idiot!" I guess I can see how one could take it as such. I use "of course" in casual conversation even if it has a slight overtone of "Well duh" but nothing that harsh. Maybe that would be a good art project to fund, something about the implications of ambiguous language tonality through simple interchangeable expressions.

How is the NEA a "basically a front for the campaign"? Wait before answering that, are you talking about the national education association or the national endowment for the arts?

Technically it applies to both really. I'll get some more objective sources later.

If it's the latter, which is what I'm talking about,... from my brief research it looks like they focus mainly on grants and funding art exhibitions. Is it because they are trying to garner voter support for obama? I think it would be only natural for the program to try and support the president most likely to support it's interests, just as if focus on the family were a government funded organization( i know it isn't but it's the first conservative organization that came to mind) I would fully expect them to seek more support for Romney.

The question is who are they granting to, who is getting the funds, and is there a connection between the recipients of their funding and those who tow the party line? It would be just as unacceptable as if the government funded Republican-affiliated organizations. But I will try to get a more solid and backed case later.

 

[MoonWater]

I edited in an apology if you took my tone as talking down, I meant "of course" as in "Indeed", not like "Of course you idiot!" I guess I can see how one could take it as such. I use "of course" in casual conversation even if it has a slight overtone of "Well duh" but nothing that harsh. Maybe that would be a good art project to fund, something about the implications of ambiguous language tonality through simple interchangeable expressions.

Indeed it would I would be very interested to see it.

Technically it applies to both really. I'll get some more objective sources later.



The question is who are they granting to, who is getting the funds, and is there a connection between the recipients of their funding and those who tow the party line? It would be just as unacceptable as if the government funded Republican-affiliated organizations. But I will try to get a more solid and backed case later.

ok

 

[painted wolf]

Every great civilization has funded the arts. Having thriving arts was a hallmark of not only prosperity but civilization itself.

It is ironic that we, as a culture, spend so much effort trying to get rid of it.

People in power have always feared artists. No other group seems to have as much political power as the artist.
And our politicians have a lot be afraid of.

wa:do

*just to be up front about my biases... I am an artist.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

The information is the same regardless who the messenger is. Huff Post:

NEA Endorses Obama's Bid for Second Term.

That's the National Education Association. Not the National Endowment of the Arts. ...Very funny.

Good grief! That must have been embarrassing. :biglaugh:

 

[Revoltingest]

Every great civilization has funded the arts. Having thriving arts was a hallmark of not only prosperity but civilization itself.
It is ironic that we, as a culture, spend so much effort trying to get rid of it.
People in power have always feared artists. No other group seems to have as much political power as the artist.
And our politicians have a lot be afraid of.
wa:do
*just to be up front about my biases... I am an artist.

Caution...derision ahead!

Fear artists? Pullleeeeeezzzzz!
I'm sure Obama cowers in his loafers at the prospect of pointed barbs launched at him by the likes of:
- Andres Sarrano (of P**s Christ fame)
- Yoko Ono
- Philip Glass

I can just see a Philip Glass screed against Obama.....
"You stink. You stink. You stink. You stink. You stink. You stink. You stink. You stink. You stink. You stink."

 

[Mathematician]

Outside of museums and educational programs, I don't really see the need to fund the arts. The internet has resulted in a prosperity of music, art, literature, and visual performances for those interested in looking. That said funding for the arts is so insignificant that I think any calls for abolishing government programs is just empty rhetoric.

I think science is a much larger objective for funding. Art is a result of the human experience that is open for interpretation and enjoyment. Science can inspire, but the average Joe/Jane is too ignorant of technical subjects. Plus medicine and space defense are, ultimately, matters of life and death.

 

[Alceste]

I am currently giving group classes in jug band music to senior citizens thanks to a grant funded project with the aim of improving their quality of life, penetrating the social isolation seniors often experience, and keeping their minds sharp by teaching them new skills. The course is free, which ensures that a fixed income doesn't become an obstacle to participation. The instruments are also free - we bought them for the program and participants sign them out whenever they like, for as long as they like.

This is an example of what arts funding can do. Most community oriented art projects and centres rely heavily on grants. It's not all cocktails and ugly paintings. It's me, showing your grandma how to play Ukulele Lady. Teaching your kids how to build functional musical instruments out of junk they find lying around the house. My friend, an award winning graphic novelist, being able to take enough time of his catering job to write his third book. Funding for touring musicians is absolutely fundamental to folk festivals, which generate tens of thousands of dollars worth of economic activity wherever they are held.

However much contempt you feel for artists and the arts, I guarantee you will miss that funding when it's gone. Be careful what you wish for.

 

[Alceste]

Outside of museums and educational programs, I don't really see the need to fund the arts. The internet has resulted in a prosperity of music, art, literature, and visual performances for those interested in looking. That said funding for the arts is so insignificant that I think any calls for abolishing government programs is just empty rhetoric.

I think science is a much larger objective for funding. Art is a result of the human experience that is open for interpretation and enjoyment. Science can inspire, but the average Joe/Jane is too ignorant of technical subjects. Plus medicine and space defense are, ultimately, matters of life and death.

So you think libraries should be shut down?

 

[Revoltingest]

However much contempt you feel for artists and the arts, I guarantee you will miss that funding when it's gone. Be careful what you wish for.

Art won't be gone if gov subsidies disappear.