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Should assaulting police officers be considered a hate crime?

Should assaulting police officers be considered a hate crime?

  • Yes

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • No

    Votes: 19 86.4%
  • Undecided

    Votes: 3 13.6%

  • Total voters
    22

Nous

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
I have no problem with laws such as the bill in NY, which adds offenses targeting LEOs, firefighters and EMS personnel to the hate crime statute. The offender has to intentionally select the LEO, firefighter or EMS person against whom the offense is committed or intended. I don't see how mere resisting arrest or noncooperation during a protest or march could be construed as a hate crime. The prosecutor will have to prove that intentional selection.

Obviously police officers have been the target of crimes motivated by hate, and there is no reason that penalties for such crimes should not be upped.



BTW, I didn't answer the poll question because the wording. I agree that intentionally selecting an LEO, firefighter or EMS personnel against whom to commit or intend to commit an offense should be included as a hate crime.
 

Nous

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
One of the standard things, though, that can make a crime more severe, or lessen the offense, is the viewpoint of the person committing the act. Motivation is *one* component of guilt.
Yes, motivation is an important factor in determining culpability and sentencing. Intentionally striking a person with one's car is a much more serious crime and gets a much greater sentence than doing so negligently.
 

Nous

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
How does it fight prejudice?
The increased penalties for committing a hate crime as opposed to the same crime not motivated by hate are presumably as effective in deterring such crimes as the increased penalties for armed robbery over robbery without a gun..
 

Flame

Beware
The increased penalties for committing a hate crime as opposed to the same crime not motivated by hate are presumably as effective in deterring such crimes as the increased penalties for armed robbery over robbery without a gun..

Proof on this?
 

Nous

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
The increased penalties for committing a hate crime as opposed to the same crime not motivated by hate are presumably as effective in deterring such crimes as the increased penalties for armed robbery over robbery without a gun.
Proof on this?
The proof my of presumption is my statement.
 

Polymath257

Think & Care
Staff member
Premium Member
Maybe we should eliminate all 'hate crimes' and instead charge people who commit crimes based on race, sexual identity, etc as terrorists.

Because that is *exactly* what they are: domestic terrorists. The goal of their action is to intimidate the *group* of people they hate.

So, how's that for a solution? Instead of charging those who shoot up churches, or who select and beat up gays with hate crimes, why not *really* charge them with the crime they committed: terrorism?
 

Nous

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
Maybe we should eliminate all 'hate crimes' and instead charge people who commit crimes based on race, sexual identity, etc as terrorists.

Because that is *exactly* what they are: domestic terrorists. The goal of their action is to intimidate the *group* of people they hate.

So, how's that for a solution? Instead of charging those who shoot up churches, or who select and beat up gays with hate crimes, why not *really* charge them with the crime they committed: terrorism?
I am pleased to see at least one person who understands the reason for the enhanced penalties for hate crimes. As Justice Rehnquist wrote in the unanimous Wisconsin v. Mitchell, in upholding Wisconsin's race-motivated hate crime enhancement:

Traditionally, sentencing judges have considered a wide variety of factors in addition to evidence bearing on guilt in determining what sentence to impose on a convicted defendant. See Payne v. Tennessee, 501 U. S. ----, ---- (1991) (slip op., at 10); United States v. Tucker, 404 U.S. 443, 446 (1972); Williams v. New York, 337 U.S. 241, 246 (1949). The defendant's motive for committing the offense is one important factor. See 1 W. LeFave & A. Scott, Substantive Criminal Law § 3.6(b), p. 324 (1986) ("Motives are most relevant when the trial judge sets the defendant's sentence, and it is not uncommon for a defendant to receive a minimum sentence because he was acting with good motives, or a rather high sentence because of his bad motives"); cf. Tison v. Arizona, 481 U.S. 137, 156 (1987) ("Deeply ingrained in our legal tradition is the idea that the more purposeful is the criminal conduct, the more serious is the offense, and, therefore, the more severely it ought to be punished"). Thus, in many States the commission of a murder, or other capital offense, for pecuniary gain is a separate aggravating circumstance under the capital sentencing statute. See, e. g., Ariz. Rev. Stat. Ann. § 13-703(F)(5) (1989); Fla. Stat. § 921.1415(f) (Supp. 1992); Miss. Code Ann. § 99-19-101(5)(f) (Supp. 1992); N. C. Gen. Stat. § 15A-2000(e)(6) (1992); Wyo. Stat. § 6-2-102(h)(vi) (Supp. 1992).​

[. . .]

Moreover, the Wisconsin statute singles out for enhancement bias inspired conduct because this conduct is thought to inflict greater individual and societal harm. For example, according to the State and its amici, bias motivated crimes are more likely to provoke retaliatory crimes, inflict distinct emotional harms on their victims, and incite community unrest. See, e. g., Brief for Petitioner 24-27; Brief for United States as Amicus Curiae 13-15;Brief for Lawyers' Committee for Civil Rights Under Law as Amicus Curiae 18-22; Brief for the American Civil Liberties Union as Amicus Curiae 17-19; Brief for the Anti Defamation League et al. as Amici Curiae 9-10; Brief for Congressman Charles E. Schumer et al. as Amici Curiae 8-9. The State's desire to redress these perceived harms provides an adequate explanation for its penalty enhancement provision over and above mere disagreement with offenders' beliefs or biases. As Blackstone said long ago, "it is but reasonable that among crimes of different natures those should be most severely punished, which are the most destructive of the public safety and happiness." 4 W. Blackstone, Commentaries *16.​

Wisconsin v. Mitchell, 508 U.S. 47 (1993).

Actually, hate crime laws generally only increase the seriousness of the crime by one notch, whereas the penalties for terroristic acts are quite harsher.
 

9-10ths_Penguin

1/10 Subway Stalinist
Premium Member
Maybe, we can start prosecuting all crimes to the same standard, whatever the race, gender, or job of the perpetrator and victim. All crimes of violence are "hate crimes."
A hate crime is a crime intended to intimidate an entire identifiable community or group. You think that every crime of violence is intended to intimidate an entire identifiable community of group?

Let's stop getting sidetracked with extra, meaningless baggage all the time.
Intent is "baggage"?
 

9-10ths_Penguin

1/10 Subway Stalinist
Premium Member
Yes, but the assault is the actual crime, as per my point.
Consider two crimes. The injuries are the same:

- a man gets beaten up in the course of a mugging. The only motivation is the money.

- a black man gets beaten up to send a message to the black community not to go into the "white" part of town.

The message in the second crime is irrelevant?

Edit: intimidating a community with a threat of violence doesn't matter?
 

Nous

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
Yes, but the assault is the actual crime, as per my point.
But your "point" is false. Every crime entails two components: an actus reus and a mens rea. Hitting a person with one's car and killing him/her might be an unavoidable accident (justifiable homicide), negligent homicide, or first degree murder, depending on the mens rea.
 

Kilgore Trout

Misanthropic Humanist
A hate crime is a crime intended to intimidate an entire identifiable community or group.

That's one theory.

You think that every crime of violence is intended to intimidate an entire identifiable community of group?

You think I'll fall for your strawman? I never do, so I don't know why you think I would start now.

Intent is "baggage"?

The actual criminal act is what should be prosecuted.
 

Kilgore Trout

Misanthropic Humanist
Consider two crimes. The injuries are the same:

- a man gets beaten up in the course of a mugging. The only motivation is the money.

- a black man gets beaten up to send a message to the black community not to go into the "white" part of town.

The message in the second crime is irrelevant?

Edit: intimidating a community with a threat of violence doesn't matter?

Correct. I don't see why the victim of the first crime should get any less justice, as he suffered the same violence and injury.
 

Kilgore Trout

Misanthropic Humanist
But your "point" is false. Every crime entails two components: an actus reus and a mens rea. Hitting a person with one's car and killing him/her might be an unavoidable accident (justifiable homicide), negligent homicide, or first degree murder, depending on the mens rea.

Holy crap - Latin!

Indeed, whether a criminal act is intentional, accidental, negligent, etc. is relevant. You're certainly entitled to hold the opinion that a "hate" crime is a valid analogy.
 

Nous

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
Indeed, whether a criminal act is intentional, accidental, negligent, etc. is relevant. You're certainly entitled to hold the opinion that a "hate" crime is a valid analogy.
You don't know of any reason not to consider hate as a motive for perpetrating a hate crime, do you?
 

9-10ths_Penguin

1/10 Subway Stalinist
Premium Member
Correct. I don't see why the victim of the first crime should get any less justice, as he suffered the same violence and injury.
Uttering threats is a crime in and of itself. You don't see why an assault with an implicit threat should be seen as anything more than an assault without the threat?
 
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