Should Christians Be Keeping the Sabbath?

[WALL]

Christ's teaching about the commandments (where's the Sabbath anyway?)

Matthew 22:36-39 (NIV)
Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?
Jesus replied: ‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’
This is the first and greatest commandment.
And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’

I'd rather show you the big picture.

MATT.22 [35] Then one of them, which was a lawyer, asked him a question, tempting him, and saying, [36] Master, which is the great commandment in the law?[37] Jesus said unto him, THOU SHALT LOVE THE LORD THY GOD WITH ALL THY HEART, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.[38] This is the first and great commandment.[39] And the second is like unto it, THOU SHALT LOVE THY NEIGHBOUR AS THYSELF.[40] On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

Why do you believe that we no longer need keep Gods sabbath because of what Jesus said in Matthew?

DEUT.6 [5] And THOU SHALT LOVE THE LORD THY GOD WITH ALL THINE HEART, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might.[6] And these words, which I command thee this day, shall be in thine heart [17] Ye shall diligently KEEP THE COMMANDMENTS of the LORD your God, and his testimonies, and his statutes, which he hath commanded thee.

Jesus was only quoting scriptures from the old testament. And as you can see in above scripture the way to love GOD is to keep diligently the commandments.

1JOHN 5 [2] By this we know that we love the children of God, WHEN WE LOVE GOD, AND KEEP HIS COMMANDMENTS.[3] For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.

And the new testament verifies the old testament as to how we are to show our love for God? In the new testament book of John. When we love God, we keep His commandments.

LEV.19 [17] Thou shalt not hate thy brother in thine heart: thou shalt in any wise rebuke thy neighbour, and not suffer sin upon him.[18] Thou shalt not avenge, nor bear any grudge against the children of thy people, but THOU SHALT LOVE THY NEIGHBOUR AS THYSELF: I am the LORD.

Again (thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself) Jesus is quoting scripture from the old testament. Do you agree that the people who lived in old testament times were under the 10 commandments. Of course they were. So why when Jesus quotes old testament scripture do you think the 10 commandments are now done away with?

2JOHN1 [5] And now I beseech thee, lady, not as though I wrote a new commandment unto thee, but that which we had from the beginning, that WE LOVE ONE ANOTHER.[6] AND THIS IS LOVE, THAT WE WALK AFTER HIS COMMANDMENTS. This is the commandment, That, as ye have heard from the beginning, ye should walk in it.

In John, you can read how we are to love our neighbour according to the NEW TESTAMENT. It’s the same way that it says in the old testament. KEEP GODS 10 COMMANDMENTS. Jesus is the same today, yesterday and forever.

 

[WALL]

Mt 15:24 He answered, “I was sent only to the lost sheep of Israel.”

Hi JM2C. Why {according to scripture} were they lost?

DEUT.4 [27] And THE LORD SHALL SCATTER YOU AMONG THE NATIONS, AND YE SHALL BE LEFT FEW IN NUMBER AMONG THE HEATHEN, whither the LORD shall lead you.[28] And there ye shall serve gods, the work of men's hands, wood and stone, which neither see, nor hear, nor eat, nor smell.[29] But if from thence thou shalt seek the LORD thy God, thou shalt find him, if thou seek him with all thy heart and with all thy soul.[30] WHEN THOU ART IN TRIBULATION, AND ALL THESE THINGS ARE COME UPON THEE, EVEN IN THE LATTER DAYS, if thou turn to the LORD thy God, and shalt be obedient unto his voice;[31] (For the LORD thy God is a merciful God he will not forsake thee, neither destroy thee, nor forget the covenant of thy fathers which he sware unto them.

The Lord scatters the 10 {lost}tribes of the children of Israel amoung the gentiles for being disobedient. The lost sheep?

MATT.15 [22] And, behold, a woman of Canaan came out of the same coasts, and cried unto him, saying, Have mercy on me, O Lord, thou Son of David; my daughter is grievously vexed with a devil.[23] But he answered her not a word. And his disciples came and besought him, saying, Send her away; for she crieth after us.[24] But he answered and said, I AM NOT SENT BUT UNTO THE LOST SHEEP of the house of Israel.

Jesus said "I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel"

JER.50 [4] In those days, and in that time, saith the LORD, the children of Israel shall come, they and the children of Judah together, going and weeping: they shall go, and seek the LORD their God.[5] They shall ask the way to Zion with their faces thitherward, saying, Come, and let us join ourselves to the LORD in A PERPETUAL COVENANT that shall not be forgotten.[6] MY PEOPLE HATH BEEN LOST SHEEP: their shepherds have caused them to go astray, they have turned them away on the mountains: they have gone from mountain to hill, THEY HAVE FORGOTTEN THEIR RESTINGPLACE.

My people hath been lost sheep

they have forgotten their restingplace (they sure have)

let us join ourselves to the LORD in a perpetual covenant that shall not be forgotten (remember the…)

Well, In Jeremiah we can find the sheep that Jesus came for. The remnant of the lost 10 tribes of the children of Israel, who believe they are nothing more than gentiles. Have the many been decieved, just as the new testament says. The sabbath rest has been forgotten, but as you can see, the lost sheep that Jesus came for will return to the “perpetual covenant” and keep Gods sabbath day. In Jer.50 you find the words “they have forgotten their restingplace” and the 4th commandment begins with “remember the sabbath”.

EXODUS 31[15] Six days may work be done; but in THE SEVENTH IS THE SABBATH of rest, holy to the LORD: whosoever doeth any work in the sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death.[16] Wherefore the children of Israel shall keep the sabbath, to observe the sabbath throughout their generations, for a PERPETUAL COVENANT.[17] It is a sign between me and the children of Israel for ever: for in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, and on the seventh day he rested, and was refreshed.

If you have a KJV bible you will find the words “PERPETUAL COVENANT” only in these 2 scriptures. Jer. 50 and Exodus 31. Exodus 31 speaks of the sabbath as the “perpetual covenant” and Jer.50 speaks of that “perpetual covenant” being forgotten by His people. But...in verse 5 Gods people will return to that perpetual covenant {the sabbath} and it will not be forgotten

 

[WALL]

Well apparently, Jesus died on the cross for our sins. In doing that, he fulfilled the law which did indeed abolish its usefulness to his followers.

Why does that indeed abolish its usefulness to His followers?

MATTHEW 3 [13] Then cometh Jesus from Galilee to Jordan unto John, to be baptized of him. [14] But John forbad him, saying, I have need to be baptized of thee, and comest thou to me? [15] And Jesus answering said unto him, Suffer it to be so now: for THUS IT BECOMETH US TO FULFIL ALL RIGHTEOUSNESS. Then he suffered him.

According to your logic, because the written word says Jesus fullfilled the law, we no longer need to attempt to keep the law. Jesus has done away with the law. So has Jesus done away with righteousness? We need not attempt to be righteous because Jesus fulfilled all righteousness. I dont think so

MATT.5 [17] Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I AM NOT COME TO DESTROY, BUT TO FULFIL. [18] For verily I say unto you, till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

What does Jesus say? First he says he has not come to destroy the law. Then he goes on to say the law is intact until heaven and earth pass. Has the earth passed? I know for a fact im still standing on this earth. So...Lets use some common sense. Jesus did fulfil the law and the law is still to be followed. It was not nailed to the cross as the "many" claim. So what did Jesus mean when he said he came to fulfill the law?

LUKE 24 [44] And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that ALL THINGS MUST BE FULFILLED, WHICH WERE WRITTEN IN THE LAW of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, CONCERNING ME.

Yeah, He came and fulfilled the prophecies of His coming which were written in the law concerning Him. The new covenant in His blood. The meat and drink offerings OF the new moons, feast days and the sabbaths which were but a shadow of Christ

 

[JM2C]

Hi JM2C. Why {according to scripture} were they lost?

DEUT.4 [27] And THE LORD SHALL SCATTER YOU AMONG THE NATIONS, AND YE SHALL BE LEFT FEW IN NUMBER AMONG THE HEATHEN, whither the LORD shall lead you.[28] And there ye shall serve gods, the work of men's hands, wood and stone, which neither see, nor hear, nor eat, nor smell.[29] But if from thence thou shalt seek the LORD thy God, thou shalt find him, if thou seek him with all thy heart and with all thy soul.[30] WHEN THOU ART IN TRIBULATION, AND ALL THESE THINGS ARE COME UPON THEE, EVEN IN THE LATTER DAYS, if thou turn to the LORD thy God, and shalt be obedient unto his voice;[31] (For the LORD thy God is a merciful God he will not forsake thee, neither destroy thee, nor forget the covenant of thy fathers which he sware unto them.

The Lord scatters the 10 {lost}tribes of the children of Israel amoung the gentiles for being disobedient. The lost sheep?

MATT.15 [22] And, behold, a woman of Canaan came out of the same coasts, and cried unto him, saying, Have mercy on me, O Lord, thou Son of David; my daughter is grievously vexed with a devil.[23] But he answered her not a word. And his disciples came and besought him, saying, Send her away; for she crieth after us.[24] But he answered and said, I AM NOT SENT BUT UNTO THE LOST SHEEP of the house of Israel.

Jesus said "I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel"

JER.50 [4] In those days, and in that time, saith the LORD, the children of Israel shall come, they and the children of Judah together, going and weeping: they shall go, and seek the LORD their God.[5] They shall ask the way to Zion with their faces thitherward, saying, Come, and let us join ourselves to the LORD in A PERPETUAL COVENANT that shall not be forgotten.[6] MY PEOPLE HATH BEEN LOST SHEEP: their shepherds have caused them to go astray, they have turned them away on the mountains: they have gone from mountain to hill, THEY HAVE FORGOTTEN THEIR RESTINGPLACE.

My people hath been lost sheep

they have forgotten their restingplace (they sure have)

let us join ourselves to the LORD in a perpetual covenant that shall not be forgotten (remember the…)

Well, In Jeremiah we can find the sheep that Jesus came for. The remnant of the lost 10 tribes of the children of Israel, who believe they are nothing more than gentiles. Have the many been decieved, just as the new testament says. The sabbath rest has been forgotten, but as you can see, the lost sheep that Jesus came for will return to the “perpetual covenant” and keep Gods sabbath day. In Jer.50 you find the words “they have forgotten their restingplace” and the 4th commandment begins with “remember the sabbath”.

EXODUS 31[15] Six days may work be done; but in THE SEVENTH IS THE SABBATH of rest, holy to the LORD: whosoever doeth any work in the sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death.[16] Wherefore the children of Israel shall keep the sabbath, to observe the sabbath throughout their generations, for a PERPETUAL COVENANT.[17] It is a sign between me and the children of Israel for ever: for in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, and on the seventh day he rested, and was refreshed.

If you have a KJV bible you will find the words “PERPETUAL COVENANT” only in these 2 scriptures. Jer. 50 and Exodus 31. Exodus 31 speaks of the sabbath as the “perpetual covenant” and Jer.50 speaks of that “perpetual covenant” being forgotten by His people. But...in verse 5 Gods people will return to that perpetual covenant {the sabbath} and it will not be forgotten

The OP asked “Should Christians Be Keeping the Sabbath?"
Gentile Christians according to Acts 15 and Galatians 2:7 should stay as Gentiles and need not to follow the Law of Moses, but the Christian Jews according to Galatians 2:7 should stay as Jews and follow the Law of Moses as per their tradition like circumcision and holidays, but not for justification. Gal 3:11 Now that no man is justified by the law before God, is evident: for, The righteous shall live by faith;

 

[dantech]

Why does that indeed abolish its usefulness to His followers?

MATTHEW 3 [13] Then cometh Jesus from Galilee to Jordan unto John, to be baptized of him. [14] But John forbad him, saying, I have need to be baptized of thee, and comest thou to me? [15] And Jesus answering said unto him, Suffer it to be so now: for THUS IT BECOMETH US TO FULFIL ALL RIGHTEOUSNESS. Then he suffered him.

According to your logic, because the written word says Jesus fullfilled the law, we no longer need to attempt to keep the law. Jesus has done away with the law. So has Jesus done away with righteousness? We need not attempt to be righteous because Jesus fulfilled all righteousness. I dont think so

MATT.5 [17] Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I AM NOT COME TO DESTROY, BUT TO FULFIL. [18] For verily I say unto you, till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

What does Jesus say? First he says he has not come to destroy the law. Then he goes on to say the law is intact until heaven and earth pass. Has the earth passed? I know for a fact im still standing on this earth. So...Lets use some common sense. Jesus did fulfil the law and the law is still to be followed. It was not nailed to the cross as the "many" claim. So what did Jesus mean when he said he came to fulfill the law?

LUKE 24 [44] And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that ALL THINGS MUST BE FULFILLED, WHICH WERE WRITTEN IN THE LAW of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, CONCERNING ME.

Yeah, He came and fulfilled the prophecies of His coming which were written in the law concerning Him. The new covenant in His blood. The meat and drink offerings OF the new moons, feast days and the sabbaths which were but a shadow of Christ

I'm an orthodox Jew. That post was sarcastic.

 

[WALL]

I'm an orthodox Jew. That post was sarcastic.

How?

 

[WALL]

I know many will contend they are keeping it by keeping the Lord's day, I just wonder what basis that has beside Christian tradition.

So what is the Lords day? The only place i can find the “Lord’s day” is Rev.1. The many claim the Lord’s day in that scripture is speaking of sunday. Others say its speaking of saturday {Gods sabbath day}. Neither is correct. Its speaking of the “day of the Lord”.

REV.1 [7] Behold, HE COMETH WITH CLOUDS; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of THE EARTH SHALL WAIL because of him. Even so, Amen.[8] I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.[9] I John, who also am your brother, and companion in tribulation, and in the kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ, was in the isle that is called Patmos, for the word of God, and for the testimony of Jesus Christ.[10] I was in the Spirit on THE LORD'S DAY, and heard behind me a GREAT VOICE, as of A TRUMPET,

he cometh with clouds - of a trumpet - the Lord's day - a great voice - the earth shall wail

ZEPH.1 [14] The great DAY OF THE LORD is near, it is near, and hasteth greatly, even THE VOICE of the day of the LORD: the mighty man shall CRY THERE BITTERLY.[15] That day is a day of wrath, a day of trouble and distress, a day of wasteness and desolation, a day of darkness and gloominess, a DAY OF CLOUDS and thick darkness,[16] A day of THE TRUMPET and alarm against the fenced cities, and against the high towers

a day of clouds - of the trumpet - The great day of the LORD - even the voice - man shall cry there bitterly

See how these two scriptures are speaking of the same exact event. Pretty simple to see now that the Lords day is not sunday nor the sabbath day but another way to say the Day of the Lord. Simply read Rev.1. Why in the world would the earth wail because it was a sunday? However.......

AMOS 5 [16] Therefore the LORD, the God of hosts, the Lord, saith thus; WAILING shall be in all streets; and they shall say in all the highways, Alas! alas! and they shall call the husbandman to mourning, and such as are skilful of lamentation to WAILING. [17] And in all vineyards shall be WAILING: for I will pass through thee, saith the LORD. [18] Woe unto you that desire THE DAY OF THE LORD! to what end is it for you? THE DAY OF THE LORD is darkness, and not light.

There will be plenty of WAILING come the DAY OF THE LORD

 

[metis]

The word "yom" means "day", but sometimes it is used symbolically for a period of time, such as "a thousand years is but a day...".

 

[roger1440]

Well apparently, Jesus died on the cross for our sins. In doing that, he fulfilled the law which did indeed abolish its usefulness to his followers.

I don't understand it either, but that's probably one of the reasons why I'm not a Christian.

Correct me if I'm wrong. The term "fulfillment of the Law" is nowhere to be found in Jewish scripture.

 

[psychoslice]

I think if you are going to call yourself a true Christian then the true Sabbath for you is Saturday the seventh day, it was always Saturday, Jesus never changed it, who changes it was the Papal system, research it.

 

[dantech]

Correct me if I'm wrong. The term "fulfillment of the Law" is nowhere to be found in Jewish scripture.

That is correct.

 

[roger1440]

That is correct.

What is the purpose of the Law? It wasn't given to the Jews simply because they had to much free time on there hands. Wasn't the Law given to the Jews to lead them into holiness? To be holy because God is holy.

 

[dantech]

What is the purpose of the Law? It wasn't given to the Jews simply because they had to much free time on there hands. Wasn't the Law given to the Jews to lead them into holiness? To be holy because God is holy.

That's a rather short way of putting it, but sure, that is one of the reasons.

 

[roger1440]

That's a rather short way of putting it, but sure, that is one of the reasons.

First off, I don't read these Gospels like your garden variety Christian does. The fulfillment of the Law does not abolish the Law. It accomplishes the Law. The Old Covenant leads to holiness, the New Covenant is that very holiness. I get this not from the Church but by reading Matthew then into Jewish scripture. Matthew was Jewish, so we must read Matthew through a Jewish lens.

 

[roger1440]

Jesus is a metaphor for the union between God and Israel, hence holiness. This would explain the virgin birth.

 

[roger1440]

Why doesn't the Church know this? Simple, these gospels were never written for gentiles in the first place.

 

[dantech]

First off, I don't read these Gospels like your garden variety Christian does. The fulfillment of the Law does not abolish the Law. It accomplishes the Law.

A law can not be fulfilled, or accomplished permanently, but only until the next time it is applied. For example, Saturday night, I accomplished the Shabbat laws. But next Saturday, I will again.

Furthermore, how do you fulfill or accomplish negative laws? If you are told not to eat pork, how do you accomplish that other than by not eating pork?

The Old Covenant leads to holiness, the New Covenant is that very holiness.

That's your opinion and you are entitled to it.

I get this not from the Church but by reading Matthew then into Jewish scripture. Matthew was Jewish, so we must read Matthew through a Jewish lens.

so because Matthew was Jewish, it makes his word more believable, or authoritative? How about the many Jews involved in the Talmud? How about the many Jews who rejected Jesus?

 

[Bunyip]

I like the idea of a sabbath, a day without work, ipads, TV etc would make for a better world. We would end up having to talk to each other.

 

[roger1440]

I never mentioned whether Matthew was right or wrong. All I'm saying is what I think Matthew meant by "fulfillment of the Law" and "New covenant".

 

[roger1440]

A law can not be fulfilled, or accomplished permanently, but only until the next time it is applied. For example, Saturday night, I accomplished the Shabbat laws. But next Saturday, I will again.

Furthermore, how do you fulfill or accomplish negative laws? If you are told not to eat pork, how do you accomplish that other than by not eating pork?


That's your opinion and you are entitled to it.

so because Matthew was Jewish, it makes his word more believable, or authoritative? How about the many Jews involved in the Talmud? How about the many Jews who rejected Jesus?

I think the message of the gospels is that the totality of the journey is equal to the destination. I’m not saying if they are right or wrong. It’s not about me.