Should Christians Be Keeping the Sabbath?

[metis]

I like the idea of a sabbath, a day without work, ipads, TV etc would make for a better world. We would end up having to talk to each other.

I love the Sabbath-- especially in Jerusalem. During the morning and afternoon on Friday, people are out shopping or working, and then just before sunset it all comes to a grinding halt. No driving. No cooking. No shopping. No t.v. or radio. No cell phones. People get together with family and friends, maybe have a picnic in a park, and just relax and enjoy.

 

[dantech]

I like the idea of a sabbath, a day without work, ipads, TV etc would make for a better world. We would end up having to talk to each other.

I love the Sabbath-- especially in Jerusalem. During the morning and afternoon on Friday, people are out shopping or working, and then just before sunset it all comes to a grinding halt. No driving. No cooking. No shopping. No t.v. or radio. No cell phones. People get together with family and friends, maybe have a picnic in a park, and just relax and enjoy.

It really is peaceful when you compare it to the weekdays which are full of work related stress, responsibility, etc...
You just disconnect from the outside world, and focus on family and spirituality.

 

[2ndpillar]

You do know that when the ten commandments were written, Christianity wasn't even close to existence, right?

In fact, Judaism was only just starting to exist.

But yes, I'm sure the the Sabbath was written in the ten commandments for Christians.

Dear dan,
The Roman church, which was instituted by the Roman emperor Constantine, at the Council of Nicaea in the year 325, has their own 10 commandments, which changes the law from keeping the Sabbath on the 7th day, to keeping the Lord's Day, which is then defined as the day of the sun, in line with the decree of Constantine, which he wrote in the year 321 A.D., which forbade working on the day of the sun. The law still exist in the form of Sunday blue laws.

 

[metis]

The move to observe Sunday versus Saturday was actually done during the 2nd century, although there was movement in that direction even before the turn of the century.

 

[Yes]

Im gonna go out on a limb here and guess you were speaking of whats written in Gal.4

No, not just what Galatians 4 says.

GAL.4 [8] Howbeit then, when ye knew not God, ye did service unto them which by nature are no gods.[9] But now, after that ye have known God, or rather are known of God, how turn ye again to the weak and beggarly elements, whereunto ye desire again to be in bondage?[10] YE OBSERVE DAYS, AND MONTHS, AND TIMES, AND YEARS.[11] I am afraid of you, lest I have bestowed upon you labour in vain.

Galatians 4 says nothing about sabbaths or feast days. Its speaking of those who observe times.

DEUT.18 [9] When thou art come into the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee, thou shalt not learn to do after the abominations of those nations.[10] There shall not be found among you any one that maketh his son or his daughter to pass through the fire, or that useth divination, OR AN OBSERVER OF TIMES, or an enchanter, or a witch,[11] Or a charmer, or a consulter with familiar spirits, or a wizard, or a necromancer.

The same thing goes on to this very day. Its speaking of the occult. Those who observe certain days by use of horoscopes?

Since Jesus fulfilled the old Law, observing special days is not different than what the pagans did and do, such as observing their special days.

2 CHR.33 [3] For he built again the high places which Hezekiah his father had broken down, and he reared up altars for Baalim, and made groves, and worshipped all the host of heaven, and served them.[4] Also he built altars in the house of the LORD, whereof the LORD had said, In Jerusalem shall my name be for ever.[5] And he built altars for all the host of heaven in the two courts of the house of the LORD.[6] And he caused his children to pass through the fire in the valley of the son of Hinnom: ALSO HE OBSERVED TIMES, and used enchantments, and used witchcraft, and dealt with a familiar spirit, and with wizards: he wrought much evil in the sight of the LORD, to provoke him to anger

Enchantments, witchcraft, familiar spirits, and wizards. Its speaking of the occult. Not following sabbath days.

Jesus fulfilled the old Law, even the Sabbath.

Now, observing special days is nothing, just as how the pagans do.

LEV.19 [26] Ye shall not eat any thing with the blood: neither shall ye use enchantment, NOR OBSERVE TIMES.[27] Ye shall not round the corners of your heads, neither shalt thou mar the corners of thy beard.[28] Ye shall not make any cuttings in your flesh for the dead, nor print any marks upon you: I am the LORD.[29] Do not prostitute thy daughter, to cause her to be a whore; lest the land fall to whoredom, and the land become full of wickedness.[30] YE SHALL KEEP MY SABBATHS, and reverence my sanctuary: I am the LORD.

I guess this scripture says it all. You shall not observe times BUT you will keep my sabbaths.

Jesus fulfilled the Sabbath. The Sabbath AND ALL SPECIAL DAYS in the old Law was about JESUS.

They were just teaching tools.

They were a shadow of Jesus.

Jesus came and we now observe him all day everyday

Observing days is not worthless.

 

[Yes]

Where do you find this

Jesus fulfilled the Law.

 

[dantech]

Dear dan,
The Roman church, which was instituted by the Roman emperor Constantine, at the Council of Nicaea in the year 325, has their own 10 commandments, which changes the law from keeping the Sabbath on the 7th day, to keeping the Lord's Day, which is then defined as the day of the sun, in line with the decree of Constantine, which he wrote in the year 321 A.D., which forbade working on the day of the sun. The law still exist in the form of Sunday blue laws.

Interesting, but we weren't talking about those ten commandments. If you read one page later, you'll see that the post was a misunderstanding.

 

[dantech]

Jesus fulfilled the Law.

Well, I'm sold! Where do I sign up?

 

[Bunyip]

I love the Sabbath-- especially in Jerusalem. During the morning and afternoon on Friday, people are out shopping or working, and then just before sunset it all comes to a grinding halt. No driving. No cooking. No shopping. No t.v. or radio. No cell phones. People get together with family and friends, maybe have a picnic in a park, and just relax and enjoy.

That really does sound fantastic. In Australia they used to close all the shops on Sunday and Saturday afternoon. It gives everyone a break - I really miss it. Thanks.

 

[Yes]

Well, I'm sold! Where do I sign up?

If you want to find out for yourself, there is a way.

 

[WALL]

Jesus fulfilled the Law.

Yes He did fulfil what was written of Him in the law.

MATT.5 [17] Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I AM NOT COME TO DESTROY, BUT TO FULFIL. [18] For verily I say unto you, till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

And the law is still in effect according to Jesus. Believe Him, He knows

 

[Yes]

Yes He did fulfil what was written of Him in the law.

MATT.5 [17] Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I AM NOT COME TO DESTROY, BUT TO FULFIL. [18] For verily I say unto you, till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

And the law is still in effect according to Jesus. Believe Him, He knows

What do you think fulfilled means?

Observing days are shadows and are worthless. Believe the written Word of God.

 

[WALL]

What do you think fulfilled means?

Observing days are shadows and are worthless. Believe the written Word of God.

Your opinion about the shadow is noted. Now lets see what the Word of God says about the shadow.

COL.2 [14] BLOTTING OUT THE HANDWRITING OF ORDINANCES that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;[15] And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.[16] Let no man therefore judge you in MEAT, or in DRINK, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:[17] WHICH ARE A SHADOW OF THINGS TO COME; but the body is of Christ.

The handwriting of ORDINANCES {meat and drink offerings} has been blotted out. They were the shadow

HEBREWS 9 [1] Then verily THE FIRST COVENANT HAD ALSO ORDINANCES of divine service, and a worldly sanctuary.... [9] Which was a figure for the time then present, in which were offered both gifts and sacrifices, that could not make him that did the service perfect, as pertaining to the conscience;[10] WHICH STOOD ONLY IN MEATS AND DRINKS, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed on them until the time of reformation.[12] NEITHER BY THE BLOOD OF GOATS AND CALVES, BUT BY HIS OWN BLOOD he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.

The first covenant had ORDINANCES which stood ONLY in meat and drink offerings

EZEKIEL 46 [14] And thou shalt prepare a meat offering for it every morning, the sixth part of an ephah, and the third part of an hin of oil, to temper with the fine flour; a MEAT OFFERING continually by a perpetual ORDINANCE unto the LORD.

Meat offering by ordinance. There ya go. Hebrews 9 was ofcourse correct

HEBREWS 10 [1] For THE LAW HAVING A SHADOW of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with THOSE SACRIFICES WHICH THEY OFFERED YEAR BY YEAR continually make the comers thereunto perfect.[2] For then would they not have ceased to be offered? because that the worshippers once purged should have had no more conscience of sins.[3] But in those sacrifices there is a remembrance again made of sins every year.[4] For IT IS NOT POSSIBLE THAT THE BLOOD OF BULLS AND OF GOATS SHOULD TAKE AWAY SINS.

Hebrews 10 says it all. The shadow of the law was the offerings (the meat and drink offerings). The Word does not say the sabbath was the shadow of Christ which really makes no sence at all

NUMBERS 19 [2] This is the ORDINANCE OF THE LAW which the Lord hath commanded, saying, Speak unto the children of Israel, that they bring thee a red heifer without spot, wherein is no blemish, and upon which never came yoke:

Before Christ the red heifers lived their lives in fear and trembling, thinking they might be next offering. No worries no more.

JOHN 6 [55] For my flesh is MEAT indeed, and my blood is DRINK indeed.

We are no longer under the law concerning the meat and drink offerings{the shadow}. Jesus FULFILLED that portion of the law. Jesus Himself said “For my flesh is MEAT indeed, and my blood is DRINK indeed”.

 

[metis]

It is quite hypocritical to blame Jews for not following all of the Law and condemning us for that, and then turn around and pick-and-choose which of the Laws to subscribe to.

 

[Yes]

Your opinion about the shadow is noted. Now lets see what the Word of God says about the shadow.

COL.2 [14] BLOTTING OUT THE HANDWRITING OF ORDINANCES that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;[15] And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.[16] Let no man therefore judge you in MEAT, or in DRINK, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:[17] WHICH ARE A SHADOW OF THINGS TO COME; but the body is of Christ.

The handwriting of ORDINANCES {meat and drink offerings} has been blotted out. They were the shadow

HEBREWS 9 [1] Then verily THE FIRST COVENANT HAD ALSO ORDINANCES of divine service, and a worldly sanctuary.... [9] Which was a figure for the time then present, in which were offered both gifts and sacrifices, that could not make him that did the service perfect, as pertaining to the conscience;[10] WHICH STOOD ONLY IN MEATS AND DRINKS, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed on them until the time of reformation.[12] NEITHER BY THE BLOOD OF GOATS AND CALVES, BUT BY HIS OWN BLOOD he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.

The first covenant had ORDINANCES which stood ONLY in meat and drink offerings

EZEKIEL 46 [14] And thou shalt prepare a meat offering for it every morning, the sixth part of an ephah, and the third part of an hin of oil, to temper with the fine flour; a MEAT OFFERING continually by a perpetual ORDINANCE unto the LORD.

Meat offering by ordinance. There ya go. Hebrews 9 was ofcourse correct

HEBREWS 10 [1] For THE LAW HAVING A SHADOW of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with THOSE SACRIFICES WHICH THEY OFFERED YEAR BY YEAR continually make the comers thereunto perfect.[2] For then would they not have ceased to be offered? because that the worshippers once purged should have had no more conscience of sins.[3] But in those sacrifices there is a remembrance again made of sins every year.[4] For IT IS NOT POSSIBLE THAT THE BLOOD OF BULLS AND OF GOATS SHOULD TAKE AWAY SINS.

Hebrews 10 says it all. The shadow of the law was the offerings (the meat and drink offerings). The Word does not say the sabbath was the shadow of Christ which really makes no sence at all

NUMBERS 19 [2] This is the ORDINANCE OF THE LAW which the Lord hath commanded, saying, Speak unto the children of Israel, that they bring thee a red heifer without spot, wherein is no blemish, and upon which never came yoke:

Before Christ the red heifers lived their lives in fear and trembling, thinking they might be next offering. No worries no more.

JOHN 6 [55] For my flesh is MEAT indeed, and my blood is DRINK indeed.

We are no longer under the law concerning the meat and drink offerings{the shadow}. Jesus FULFILLED that portion of the law. Jesus Himself said “For my flesh is MEAT indeed, and my blood is DRINK indeed”.

ALL the special days were about Jesus.
The whole old Law was about Jesus.
ALL the ceremonial works are about Jesus.

Jesus is all that matters.

Special days are nothing.

You are exalting special days.

 

[Yes]

It is quite hypocritical to blame Jews for not following all of the Law and condemning us for that, and then turn around and pick-and-choose which of the Laws to subscribe to.

You cannot just set aside scripture. The Jews set aside the scriptures. The Jews do not obey God's commands. God commands the sacrifice of animals to atone for our souls.

 

[metis]

The Tanakh and the Law do not deal with Jesus. Logically, if Jesus had taught the Law must be followed, then pretty much all Christian groups today are heretical because none of them follow the Law.

And picking-and-choosing which Laws supposedly apply makes literally no sense whatsoever as it states over and over again in the Tanakh that all of the Laws (613 of them) are from God and mandated for us Jews.

So, please ignore those here that simply do not know what they're talking about and laying bogus guilt trips on their fellow Christians. If you are a gentile, you simply are not bound by the Law, but if you follow what many call "the Golden Rule", you're probably on the right track, imo.

 

[Yes]

The Tanakh and the Law do not deal with Jesus. Logically, if Jesus had taught the Law must be followed, then pretty much all Christian groups today are heretical because none of them follow the Law.

Jesus fulfilled the Law. The Law was about Jesus.

And picking-and-choosing which Laws supposedly apply makes literally no sense whatsoever as it states over and over again in the Tanakh that all of the Laws (613 of them) are from God and mandated for us Jews.

Again, the whole Law, including the ceremonial works of the Law are about Jesus.

So, please ignore those here that simply do not know what they're talking about and laying bogus guilt trips on their fellow Christians. If you are a gentile, you simply are not bound by the Law, but if you follow what many call "the Golden Rule", you're probably on the right track, imo.

Jews do not obey God, they do not sacrifice animals. They do not do the various external washings. They do not adhere to the laws of punishment.

 

[metis]

You cannot just set aside scripture. The Jews set aside the scriptures. The Jews do not obey God's commands. God commands the sacrifice of animals to atone for our souls.

Again, you're fabricating nonsense. We wrote, studied, commented on, translated, and passed on to other the scriptures you use, but you come around here with your nice, tidy little English Bible and suddenly you think you're a theologian.

Animal sacrifices are not essential since there are other avenues for the forgiveness of sin, so again all you're doing is making up nonsensical little stories. For those who do not buy into your fabrications, they can look up "forgive" and its variations and see for themselves that God forgives us even without the animal sacrifices.

I find your approach so terribly bigoted and childish because you're fabricating both a type of "Judaism" and "Jewish history" that simply do not exist and have never existed. One would think that instead of making absurd accusations that one might actually do some studying and actually ask for some help as to what we Jews actually do believe, but no, you can't do that.

Hey, you're entitled to believe in what you want to believe, but I certainly hope others here don't buy the complete fabrication of a "Judaism" and "Jewish history" that simply do not exist and have never existed.

 

[Yes]

Again, you're fabricating nonsense.

You are guilty of the very thing you falsely accuse me of doing. You have correctly shown me what you do.

We wrote, studied, commented on, translated, and passed on to other the scriptures you use, but you come around here with your nice, tidy little English Bible and suddenly you think you're a theologian.

What is the 'we'? You have not written anything.

Animal sacrifices are not essential since there are other avenues for the forgiveness of sin, so again all you're doing is making up nonsensical little stories.

You are speaking against God, for it is God who says animal sacrifices must be given. IT IS THE LAW.

For those who do not buy into your fabrications, they can look up "forgive" and its variations and see for themselves that God forgives us even without the animal sacrifices.

Sacrifices are required by God in the Old Testament, the Old Covenant in which you say you obey.

I find your approach so terribly bigoted and childish because you're fabricating both a type of "Judaism" and "Jewish history" that simply do not exist and have never existed. One would think that instead of making absurd accusations that one might actually do some studying and actually ask for some help as to what we Jews actually do believe, but no, you can't do that.

Anyone can read the Old Testament and see what Moses says. God gave the Law to Moses. You do not obey. That is easy to see.

Hey, you're entitled to believe in what you want to believe, but I certainly hope others here don't buy the complete fabrication of a "Judaism" and "Jewish history" that simply do not exist and have never existed.

You got for yourself Rabbis after Jesus came. Show where the Jews had another Prophet after Jesus who says you do not have to obey the Law as given to Moses.