Should Citizens Use Deadly Force Against Cops?

[Curious George]

I suspect you are right. But the problem is, dominance/subordinance is genetically coded. So the abused still feel that the abusers have a right to abuse ...

Is it? I would like to understand more. Do you have any studies? if not I will ask Legion- I think that hits pretty close to his field.

 

[apophenia]

Is it? I would like to understand more. Do you have any studies? if not I will ask Legion- I think that hits pretty close to his field.

Yeah, Legion is the man to ask.

 

[LuisDantas]

Well it seems the only other alternatives are:

To set our watchers over authority, but then you need watchers for the watchers ad infinitum.

Not a practical solution. I simply lack access to an infinite number of watchers of ever-growing levels of competence, maturity and good judgement.

(Although I suspect the appeal of the idea is a significant component of Theistic beliefs, but that is a matter for another thread in another area.)

To accept the bad and try to right those wrongs after the fact.


Indeed, limiting the authority does seem to offer a viable alternative.

But, I am not so sure how a rotating power structure would cure the defect. Some individuals would, during their turn, still act abusively.

Actually, from what I know of psychological experiments related to the matter, most would.

The way I see it, that is a challenge of our psychological nature that must be faced up-front.

 

[Curious George]

The way I see it, that is a challenge of our psychological nature that must be faced up-front.

You mean with honest evaluation and reflection!?1 Careful now.

 

[Curious George]

Yeah, Legion is the man to ask.

sent him mail asking for cites if he has any. otherwise I will find them elsewhere. But an interesting topic for certain.

 

[LuisDantas]

You mean with honest evaluation and reflection!?1 Careful now.

That is the only way, far as I can tell.

 

[Me Myself]

I cant beleive they didnt even change the glove. What the heck.

Do they legally need search warrants for human bodys? (That is not a sarcastic question btw)

 

[Reverend Rick]

Once again, choosing to use deadly force in this instance would result in your loss of life or being incarcerated for the rest of your life and possibly being raped for decades in prison.

Making a stand on principle vs your freedom in the future or even having a future for that matter makes for a bitter reality

 

[dyanaprajna2011]

I'm not sure how to answer the OP, but I will say this: never trust a cop.

 

[Reverend Rick]

I'm not sure how to answer the OP, but I will say this: never trust a cop.

The interesing thing is they are allowed to lie but we have laws about lieing to the feds.

 

[dyanaprajna2011]

The interesing thing is they are allowed to lie but we have laws about lieing to the feds.

It's even worse than that. They also get away with crimes they commit. They're allowed to detain and brutalize citizens for no reason at all. And now they're trying to make it against the law to use cell phones or such to video record police officers during stops. Someone posted a thread a while back, asking "Is this a police state?" My answer would be a resounding yes.

 

[Revoltingest]

Someone posted a thread a while back, asking "Is this a police state?" My answer would be a resounding yes.

Ahem....was that someone carrying a garden tool, perchance?

 

[Dirty Penguin]

That's a nice list.
But he's still silent about this.

More vocal on these matters than others I'd say.....He's not as silent as you assert.....

 

[Revoltingest]

More vocal on these matters than others I'd say.....He's not as silent as you assert.....

I disagree.
Can you find any instance of his mentioning it?
The closest thing I know of is the Henry Gates arrest, wherein Obama weighed in
promptly & loudly (& recklessly) over Gates' arrest. But this didn't even involve abuse.
I find it absurd that he isn't publicly addressing it, & having the feds stop the practice.
Instead, he's giving the government even more power to invade our privacy...& privates.

 

[Dirty Penguin]

I disagree.
Can you find any instance of his mentioning it?
The closest thing I know of is the Henry Gates arrest, wherein Obama weighed in
promptly & loudly (& recklessly) over Gates' arrest. But this didn't even involve abuse.
I find it absurd that he isn't publicly addressing it, & having the feds stop the practice.
Instead, he's giving the government even more power to invade our privacy...& privates.

Are we talking about the same thing... I was talking about sexual abuse (civilian or military) or even domestic violence. He has publicly talked about this, condemned such behavior as well as signed legislation against it. I think all out politicians need to take a more active role in talking about and dealing with these sensitive issues. What specifically do you think he's not addressed?

What more can a president do, in your opinion, on these matters?

 

[Revoltingest]

Are we talking about the same thing... I was talking about sexual abuse (civilian or military) or even domestic violence. He has publicly talked about this, condemned such behavior as well as signed legislation against it. I think all out politicians need to take a more active role in talking about and dealing with these sensitive issues. What specifically do you think he's not addressed?
What more can a president do, in your opinion, on these matters?

I've not seen him address illegal sexual assault of citizens by cops.
Note the thread's title. This is not about domestic abuse, where it's accepted that the victim has a right of self defense against the perp. This is about government's insistence that victims must politely & without resistance endure illegal sexual assault by cops, with the only recourse being to complain about it afterwards.

 

[Reverend Rick]

Are we talking about the same thing... I was talking about sexual abuse (civilian or military) or even domestic violence. He has publicly talked about this, condemned such behavior as well as signed legislation against it. I think all out politicians need to take a more active role in talking about and dealing with these sensitive issues. What specifically do you think he's not addressed?

What more can a president do, in your opinion, on these matters?

DP, please allow me to steer the conversation into a question for you?

Do you believe there are any legal curcumstances were LE could be stopped by the use of deadly force by civilians?

My biggest concern is if a person is in fact proper LE.

A person could just have stolen a uniform OR the person is legit but became mentally unstable

 

[Dirty Penguin]

I've not seen him address illegal sexual assault of citizens by cops.

http://www.justice.gov/crt/about/spl/documents/polmis.php
("Addressing Police Misconduct Laws Enforced by the Department of Justice")

This is about government's insistence that victims must politely & without resistance endure illegal sexual assault by cops, with the only recourse being to complain about it afterwards.

See the link above.

Here's some others....

Obama cracks down on abuses by big-city police departments - Salon.com

Where Police Misconduct is Still A Problem | Criminal Justice | FRONTLINE | PBS

Under the Obama administration, the Justice Department has taken on more active role in pursuing abuse allegations, which has brought some changes on state or city levels.


Last year, we noted that the Justice Department’s Civil Rights Division had 17 ongoing investigations into law enforcement agencies to pursue allegations of excessive force or discrimination — more than at any time in the division’s history. Those investigations are still open.

 

[Dirty Penguin]

DP, please allow me to steer the conversation into a question for you?

Do you believe there are any legal curcumstances were LE could be stopped by the use of deadly force by civilians?

I'm sure there are.

My biggest concern is if a person is in fact proper LE.

A person could just have stolen a uniform OR the person is legit but became mentally unstable

True. There have been plenty of cases of posers.

 

[Monk Of Reason]

I think there needs to be a higher authority on this for cops. Something like an alternative (harsher) court that they wouldn't have any connection to. I also am verymuch for the idea of having cameras strategically located so as to capture the majority of what police officers do as well as laws protecting citizens who "assault" police officers.

I know of several cases where individuals merely grabbed the hands of officers who were doing an illegal search and gotten several years for "assault of a police officer".