Should English Be A Mandatory Language?

[Magic Man]

Again, how is the question relevant to the OP??!

Because the government governs the country.

 

[lilithu]

Sure. England, France, Spain...should I continue, or is that good enough. I'm sorry, I didn't realize this was necessary.

And what is the official language of Switzerland? Canada? New Zealand?

What's wrong with speaking German? So, why did none of them speak German? Why was everything in English if they were pushing cultural diversity that much?

What are you talking about? Don't you know anything about your own country's history? A lot of the original colonists spoke German. That is WHY it was considered as a candidate for "official language." That was my point. We have been multi-lingual from the beginning. And the Founding Fathers, recognizing that, declined to choose an official state language.

 

[lilithu]

Because the government governs the country.

So what?!

 

[Mister_T]

Yes, we can appreciate each other and respect each other...and communicate with each other, which then requires a common language.

Or a translator. Or bi-linguialism on both parts.

No, you didn't.

Readers can decide if I did or not. It's really not worth arguing over.

So, what do you see being so bad about an official language? And don't say it inhibits multiculturalism, because we've shown that that isn't true.

Like I said earlier just because something can be beneficial, doesn't mean it should be enforced. And I don't see why a country that Constitutionaly never intended to have an official language should flip the script just because a bunch of people don't want to be inconveinenced when trying to communicate with someone. Like a College diploma, it should be for the individuals own benefit, not everyone elses.

 

[Mister_T]

How does an English speaking government diminish a culture within a governmentl? Language is a tool for communication and nothing more.

It is entirely the point. If it is beneficial and causes little harm, then we should do it. There is no reason why we shouldn't have English as an official language. The whole 'multi cultural' argument is ********.

I've explained myself numerous times in this thread. Go back and read my explanations, I'm not going to do it for you. When you have something other that "You argument is ********" to contribute, come on back. Otherwise, someone else can entertain your well thought out remarks.

 

[kai]

i see some of you wish to live in Babel , how interesting

 

[yossarian22]

I've explained myself numerous times in this thread. Go back and read my explanations, I'm not going to do it for you. When you have something other that "You argument is ********" to contribute, come on back. Otherwise, someone else can entertain your well thought out remarks.

Sorry for being a bit... curt, but you have presented no valid reasons for English to not be a mandatory language save for cultural reasons. 'We can use a translator' is not an argument, it is a rationalization. And there is hell of alot more than mere 'convenience' in making English a national language. We'd save a ton of cash and, given our current "budget", that is good enough for me. We need a set way for communication. English just happens to be dominant.

 

[kai]

am i wrong or isnt english the official language of the united states , isnt all your commerce , laws, etc carried out in english isnt english taught in schools, like maths?

 

[yossarian22]

am i wrong or isnt english the official language of the united states , isnt all your commerce , laws, etc carried out in english isnt english taught in schools, like maths?

Yep. English is the de facto official language of the US. Its damn near impossible to get by without knowing any English without creating a bubble. My own views are not quite as absolute as 'Speak English or get the hell out', but some kind of middle ground between the two ends.

 

[kai]

Yep. English is the de facto official language of the US. Its damn near impossible to get by without knowing any English without creating a bubble. My own views are not quite as absolute as 'Speak English or get the hell out', but some kind of middle ground between the two ends.

i see so if a family comes to live in the US from say vietnam would their children learn english in school, what i mean is, is english a curriculum subject like in the UK

 

[lilithu]

i see so if a family comes to live in the US from say vietnam would their children learn english in school, what i mean is, is english a curriculum subject like in the UK

Yes, it's almost guaranteed that they would learn English. (And no one here is arguing that they shouldn't.) Many of our school systems do offer classes in other languages if there are enough students - for example, math classes taught in Spanish. But the assumption is that the kids will eventually learn enough English to take the standard classes.

That's not the point of the thread. Let's look at the rest of this same family. The family comes over from Vietnam and settles in a community with a lot of Vietnamese. Ok, the kids are learning English in school. Depending on what age they are, they will soon be fluent. The parents otoh, have a harder time of it. They're taking ESL classes at night while working during the day. Eventually they learn enough English to open their own business, for example. They make enough to support the family. Now what about the grandparents? They're old; at this point learning another language would be extremely difficult. They live in a community where they can get the news paper, go to restaurants, etc all in Vietnamese. They don't have to work because their kids support them. And when something really needs to be read in English, they can ask their fluent grandkids to translate. What is the logic in making it legally required that they learn English?

 

[Zephyr]

Here's a question: what does a language being "official" entail? I figure it would be kind of dumb to require everyone to speak English, but I'd be fine and dandy if all our government work was done in English. Having all our important documents would just simplify things. This way, that old Russian man down the street won't need to learn anything new, and can just have his grandson help him when he needs something translated.

I mean, being bilingual is useful as hell, but I don't think we should require. Leave government services in English and make ESL classes readily available to anybody who wants them, and it'll sort itself out.

 

[Random]

God yes. Be effin' great if everyone had @ least one language in common. I don't think English being spoken the world over need necessitate the demise of national dialects.

 

[Mister_T]

Sorry for being a bit... curt, but you have presented no valid reasons for English to not be a mandatory language save for cultural reasons. 'We can use a translator' is not an argument, it is a rationalization. And there is hell of alot more than mere 'convenience' in making English a national language. We'd save a ton of cash and, given our current "budget", that is good enough for me. We need a set way for communication. English just happens to be dominant.

He're's my argument in a nutshell. If you don't find it valid, that's your perogative. Fortunately my views are in line with the founders of this country.

Like I said earlier just because something can be beneficial, doesn't mean it should be enforced. And I don't see why a country that Constitutionaly never intended to have an official language should flip the script just because a bunch of people don't want to be inconveinenced when trying to communicate with someone. Like a College diploma, it should be for the individuals own benefit, not everyone elses.

 

[Magic Man]

Now what about the grandparents? They're old; at this point learning another language would be extremely difficult. They live in a community where they can get the news paper, go to restaurants, etc all in Vietnamese. They don't have to work because their kids support them. And when something really needs to be read in English, they can ask their fluent grandkids to translate. What is the logic in making it legally required that they learn English?

See, you're taking it to the extreme here. I never said these peopl have to learn. As long as they can function without extra assistence from the government or other citizens, then there's no problem. They have built-in translators in their kids and grandkids. That means they are, for all intents and purposes, self-sufficient.

As I've tried to explain many times, all I want is for anyone who moves here to be able to operate without extra assistance from the current citizens or government. That means learning English in the case of the kids and grandkids in your example. The grandparents can make it without learning English and without printing special documents just for them in Vietnamese.

 

[Panda]

I would like to point out I do NOT think English should be mandatory but I think it should be strongly recommended as it would make getting a job, filling out official forms etc. far easier and I know if I ever moved to another country I would need even for a second consider not learning their language and I expect the same courtesy in return. Even going on holiday to another country I do not expect them to speak English I expect to speak that country's language.

 

[lilithu]

See, you're taking it to the extreme here.

Aside from the fact that I used Vietnamese in the example (because kai had), I took that directly from personal experience. My brother and I were born here but my parents and paternal grandparents immigrated. And my grandparents spent the rest of their lives in the U.S. never learning English. Anything they needed they got from the Chinese community of their family.

I never said these peopl have to learn. As long as they can function without extra assistence from the government or other citizens, then there's no problem.

I see, so what you object to is that the govt makes a few extra forms for people in their native languages? Why? What's the big deal if the prints forms in both English and Vietnamese?

As for not requiring extra assistance from other citizens, I really don't know what you mean. If someone stops me on the street and asks for directions speaking English, I help them. If they stop and ask me speaking a language I don't understand, I feel bad about it but I don't help them because I can't. Hopefully the next person they ask will be able to. Either way, they have not required more assistance from me. I honestly don't understand: what is the big deal?

 

[Magic Man]

Aside from the fact that I used Vietnamese in the example (because kai had), I took that directly from personal experience. My brother and I were born here but my parents and paternal grandparents immigrated. And my grandparents spent the rest of their lives in the U.S. never learning English. Anything they needed they got from the Chinese community of their family.

Sorry, maybe I didn't say that the best. What I meant was that that's sort of an extreme, which is not to say that it doesn't happen, only that it's a special case that I would include in the "people who can function properly in society here". There is nothing wrong with that, and I have no problem with it. I thought it was obvious that I wouldn't expect someone in that situation to learn English, but maybe I didn't make that clear earlier on.

{quote]I see, so what you object to is that the govt makes a few extra forms for people in their native languages? Why? What's the big deal if the prints forms in both English and Vietnamese?[/quote]

It's the fact that then they expect that. Once a business owner gets some forms in Vietnamese, or is able to do his taxes that way, he feels like he should be able to do everything that way, and hence, doesn't feel the need to learn English. I know this doesn't happen in every case, but it does happen. I've seen it in action (although not in Vietnamese, it was Korean). In your case, there's no reason the grandparents can't just use the English form, and get help from their kids.

As for not requiring extra assistance from other citizens, I really don't know what you mean. If someone stops me on the street and asks for directions speaking English, I help them. If they stop and ask me speaking a language I don't understand, I feel bad about it but I don't help them because I can't. Hopefully the next person they ask will be able to. Either way, they have not required more assistance from me. I honestly don't understand: what is the big deal?

It's the people who come into businesses and want things, but can't speak English, and get frustrated when I can't help them. It's the business owners who obtain services and get upset with the service providers, and the service providers can't talk to them about it because the business owners don't understand enough English. It's the fact that businesses like hospitals among others spend so much money just on interpretation services, and it causes so much hassle to get people taken care of properly. These are the kinds of things I mean. Your example is again, perfectly fine. you might not be personally affected by it, but many people and businesses are.

 

[lilithu]

Well, I personally have never experienced anyone in the U.S. getting mad at me because I couldn't speak their language. That would be unreasonable of them, and it has nothing to do with whether English is made the official language of the country or not.

That said, if do you run into this a lot - where you can't help a client because of a language barrier and it's always the same language - it sounds to me like you either need to learn some of that language or hire an interpreter who can. Again, this has nothing to do with legalities, just sound business sense. If for some reason you can't serve your clients then you need to address the reason. Telling them that they should learn to speak English won't solve the situation.

 

[kai]

Yes, it's almost guaranteed that they would learn English. (And no one here is arguing that they shouldn't.) Many of our school systems do offer classes in other languages if there are enough students - for example, math classes taught in Spanish. But the assumption is that the kids will eventually learn enough English to take the standard classes.

That's not the point of the thread. Let's look at the rest of this same family. The family comes over from Vietnam and settles in a community with a lot of Vietnamese. Ok, the kids are learning English in school. Depending on what age they are, they will soon be fluent. The parents otoh, have a harder time of it. They're taking ESL classes at night while working during the day. Eventually they learn enough English to open their own business, for example. They make enough to support the family. Now what about the grandparents? They're old; at this point learning another language would be extremely difficult. They live in a community where they can get the news paper, go to restaurants, etc all in Vietnamese. They don't have to work because their kids support them. And when something really needs to be read in English, they can ask their fluent grandkids to translate. What is the logic in making it legally required that they learn English?

OK i tend to agree with you here, but to become a citizen of the USA is english compulsary?