Should English Be A Mandatory Language?

[Magic Man]

Only for you.

I'll take that as "No, I can't back up my assertions with anything other than my opinion."

If the shoes don't fit, then don't wear them.

Everyone seems to be getting along just fine (with the exception of a few English speakers) without having an an official language.

Only the country that they're moving in has no official language. So asking someone to speak a language when it isn't even necessary, is indeed arrogant.

Perhaps you'd like to explain this nonsense to eveyone? How are taxes and animal sacrifice even remotley related to speaking English?

Only here, you're imposing something that is not ment to be imposed. We have no official language, numbers don't matter. The government has no intention of imposing such a thing and that's all that really matters in regards to immigrants.

Which thankfully, is a view the government hasn't shared since it's inception.

You're quite observant. Yes, I am stuck on the "convenience" thing. Convenience is a two way street in regards to language in this country. And that last sentence was one of sarcasm.

Well that's a tragedy: People might actually have to take a few extra minutes of their time to find a bi-lingual person, instead of it being readily available at their convenience. Such a shame, really. :no:

A hope that isn't looking so bright.

You answered your own question. This country is working as intended on the language front.

Those people have been doing with what I agree with, which is why you have areas that don't have English as their dominant langauge. No mess to be found, it's working as intended, which fortunately doesn't line up with the "mandatory english" mentality. Those are the breaks.

When you cut down on your backpeddaling and can start remembering everything you said, I might actually take your suggestion seriously.

:banghead3

It really is too bad the people who make the decisions here don't reflect the majority of the citizens. If that changes, things might get done right around here.

This is it for the last time: The vast majority of Americans speak English. Any areas that aren't at all English-speaking in this country are only that way because the immigrants that moved there decided to ignore your rule of learning the language of the area to which they were moving. Now, there are areas that don't speak English. We should not encourage this or facilitate it. Anyone who moves here now should be expected to be able to operate however they need to in English, whether that means having a relative translate for them or learning English enough themselves to accomplish anything they intend to here. It is not arrogant, as I'm not saying I'm better than them because they don't speak English.

It is necessary for English to be the official language if we want to cut down on money and time wasted on unnecessary things. If we want to continue to spend money frivolously on wasteful things, then, by all means, keep going the way we are. Just because a policy is in place now doesn't mean that it is good, or should be kept in place. There was a time when slavery was legal. It is not now, because that policy was changed.

No matter what, people who come to live here will have to adjust their own culture to fit their new home regardless of the particular area they live in. Asking them to adjust it a little more is not racist, prejudiced or any other slanderous, petty, inane word you want to throw at it to make yourself feel better. You can think you're open-minded for your views, but in reality, it's nothing more than being non-committal, and accomodating to the point of chaos. There is a line to be drawn with anything. We cannot allow people to do some things that are part of their own normal culture, just as we can expect them to follow other rules that change their culture, even ever-so-slightly.

If they don't want to speak English any other time than when in a store or government agency, then that's fine. But, they need to be able to speak it in any place it's necessary. They may live in a community where everyone only speaks Spanish, but when they go to the hospital in that same community and no one is bilingual, and only speaks English, then it's their problem to understand what is happening, not the hospital's to find a way to explain it to them.

And, by the way, other countries such as France have what they call "de facto" official languages, meaning that they have not been named as "official", but they are considered to be, and are then used exclusively in public areas.

 

[Mister_T]

It really is too bad the people who make the decisions here don't reflect the majority of the citizens. If that changes, things might get done right around here.

I would think if a change like this were to be made, now would be the time with our current administration. Damn that Constitution.

This is it for the last time:

Glad to hear it.

The vast majority of Americans speak English.

Yes, we've established this a while ago.

Any areas that aren't at all English-speaking in this country are only that way because the immigrants that moved there decided to ignore your rule of learning the language of the area to which they were moving.

Or English wasn't the dominant language in that region and there was no need to learn it.

Now, there are areas that don't speak English. We should not encourage this or facilitate it.

Sure we should. It's constitutional and there's nothing wrong with it.

Anyone who moves here now should be expected to be able to operate however they need to in English, whether that means having a relative translate for them or learning English enough themselves to accomplish anything they intend to here.

Only if it's necessary to function in the area they are living in.

It is not arrogant, as I'm not saying I'm better than them because they don't speak English.

The arrogance comes in when you to expect a group conform to your wants when there is no need to.

It is necessary for English to be the official language if we want to cut down on money and time wasted on unnecessary things. If we want to continue to spend money frivolously on wasteful things, then, by all means, keep going the way we are.

You have yet to back your assertion that not speaking English is as detrimental as you're making it out to be. Until then, it's just your opinion.

Just because a policy is in place now doesn't mean that it is good, or should be kept in place. There was a time when slavery was legal. It is not now, because that policy was changed.

Slavery is morally wrong. Not speaking English isn't. Nice straw man though.

No matter what, people who come to live here will have to adjust their own culture to fit their new home regardless of the particular area they live in.

And speaking English is not always part of that adjustment.

Asking them to adjust it a little more is not racist, prejudiced or any other slanderous, petty, inane word you want to throw at it to make yourself feel better

Asking them to speak a whole other language when it's not necessary, is not a "little adjustment." It is a self-serving request to make life more convenient for yourself. And I don't need to throw any "inane" words at the concept to make myself feel better. I feel fine regardless.

You can think you're open-minded for your views, but in reality, it's nothing more than being non-committal, and accomodating to the point of chaos.

Guess the constitution and the gov't are non-commital and chaotic as well. I'm in good company.

There is a line to be drawn with anything. We cannot allow people to do some things that are part of their own normal culture, just as we can expect them to follow other rules that change their culture, even ever-so-slightly.

Those lines are drawn, and as tough as it is for you to accept, forcing people to speak English is not part of plan. Sorry, not sure what else to tell you.

If they don't want to speak English any other time than when in a store or government agency, then that's fine. But, they need to be able to speak it in any place it's necessary.

Only it's not necessary everywhere in the United States.

They may live in a community where everyone only speaks Spanish, but when they go to the hospital in that same community and no one is bilingual, and only speaks English, then it's their problem to understand what is happening, not the hospital's to find a way to explain it to them.

Thankfully, if you live in a Spanish speaking community, then there will be people who speak Spanish and/or are bi-lingual, making the above scenario not an issue.

And, by the way, other countries such as France have what they call "de facto" official languages, meaning that they have not been named as "official", but they are considered to be, and are then used exclusively in public areas.

That's great. I don't live in France. If you like France so much, you can always move there.

 

[Magic Man]

I would think if a change like this were to be made, now would be the time with our current administration. Damn that Constitution.
Glad to hear it.

Yes, we've established this a while ago.

Or English wasn't the dominant language in that region and there was no need to learn it.

And that might make a difference, if that was the case. Unfortunately it has not been.

Sure we should. It's constitutional and there's nothing wrong with it.

Only if it's necessary to function in the area they are living in.
The arrogance comes in when you to expect a group conform to your wants when there is no need to.

You have yet to back your assertion that not speaking English is as detrimental as you're making it out to be. Until then, it's just your opinion.

Do you want me to type the responses in a different language, then? I've typed it a few times in English, and you've ignored those. Although, from your general attitude on the subject you're obviously ignoring more than just me.

Slavery is morally wrong. Not speaking English isn't. Nice straw man though.

Again, you missed the point. It doesn't matter whether or not it's morally wrong. It's morally wrong because certain people say so. The point is that laws change. Government changes. Just because there isn't a law now, doesn't mean that the law wouldn't be in our best interest. Or the reverse, because there is a law doesn't mean that law is in our best interest. This country had gotten along just fine for a long time with slavery, so why did they change it? It's the same as saying that this country has gotten along just fine without English as the official language, so why change it?

And speaking English is not always part of that adjustment.

I guess you missed the part where I mentioned that. It should be.

Asking them to speak a whole other language when it's not necessary, is not a "little adjustment." It is a self-serving request to make life more convenient for yourself. And I don't need to throw any "inane" words at the concept to make myself feel better. I feel fine regardless.

As already stated and ignored by you, it is necessary unless we want to continue to waste time and money.

Guess the constitution and the gov't are non-commital and chaotic as well. I'm in good company.

Only if you assume our government is good company. (And I sure hope their rationale is better than "If it ain't broke...")

Those lines are drawn, and as tough as it is for you to accept, forcing people to speak English is not part of plan. Sorry, not sure what else to tell you.

What does it take to expres to you that I understand it's not the plan. The question here is not whether or not English is the official language. The question is whether it should be. You keep arguing using the fact that it's not. That's irrelevant to the question of whether or not it should be.

Only it's not necessary everywhere in the United States.

And it is.

Thankfully, if you live in a Spanish speaking community, then there will be people who speak Spanish and/or are bi-lingual, making the above scenario not an issue.

I take it, then, that you didn't read the article I posted a link to, or else you wouldn't have made this misinformed statement.

That's great. I don't live in France. If you like France so much, you can always move there.

I hope to at some point. I guess I'll spell it out for you: French is about as official there as English is here. Yet, everything official there is done in French, despite large groups of immigrants from northern Africa. It's faintly reminiscent of the situation here, except that now, people here feel that any little thing you ask of a person from another culture is infringing on their freedom. They're not under that delusion there.

 

[Somkid]

Most countries have a language that is common to all of it's citizens for example there are over 200 dialects of Chinese spoken in China but Mandarin is the common language to all, in India each province has it's own language but Hindi is the national language, Thailand has regional languages and dialects but central Thai or Bangkok Thai is the official language and English is the official second language. So, I believe it is a good thing to have one common language for all citizens but there is nothing wrong with also speaking another language as well. Most people are shocked to find out that the average American can only speak one language as most people in the world speak at least two at a minimum.

 

[Magic Man]

Most countries have a language that is common to all of it's citizens for example there are over 200 dialects of Chinese spoken in China but Mandarin is the common language to all, in India each province has it's own language but Hindi is the national language, Thailand has regional languages and dialects but central Thai or Bangkok Thai is the official language and English is the official second language. So, I believe it is a good thing to have one common language for all citizens but there is nothing wrong with also speaking another language as well. Most people are shocked to find out that the average American can only speak one language as most people in the world speak at least two at a minimum.

Yes! I agree completely with that last part. We do need to get better with that, and I'd like to help.

 

[Mister_T]

And that might make a difference, if that was the case. Unfortunately it has not been.

It is the case.

Do you want me to type the responses in a different language, then?

Go ahead, I've got a online translator.

I've typed it a few times in English, and you've ignored those. Although, from your general attitude on the subject you're obviously ignoring more than just me.

I'm not ignoring it, I just don't agree with it. Nice use of a straw man again.

Again, you missed the point. It doesn't matter whether or not it's morally wrong.

Morals matter a great deal.

It's morally wrong because certain people say so.

and those certain people happen to be the government.

The point is that laws change. Government changes. Just because there isn't a law now, doesn't mean that the law wouldn't be in our best interest. Or the reverse, because there is a law doesn't mean that law is in our best interest.

Laws and government do change. Fortunately, this law hasn't.

This country had gotten along just fine for a long time with slavery, so why did they change it? It's the same as saying that this country has gotten along just fine without English as the official language, so why change it?

To me, slavery is in no way morally comparable to not speaking English. Please use another example.

As already stated and ignored by you, it is necessary unless we want to continue to waste time and money.

And again, please provide some figures that show exactly how detrimental non=English speaking is to America.

Only if you assume our government is good company. (And I sure hope their rationale is better than "If it ain't broke...")

Nothing really needs fixing though. That it where you and I don't see eye-to-eye.

What does it take to expres to you that I understand it's not the plan. The question here is not whether or not English is the official language. The question is whether it should be. You keep arguing using the fact that it's not. That's irrelevant to the question of whether or not it should be.

I thought I've answered your question pretty clearly...no, it shouldn't be.

And it is.

We'll have to respectfully disagree.

I take it, then, that you didn't read the article I posted a link to, or else you wouldn't have made this misinformed statement.

I wasn't aware people considered Brooklyn a dominant Spanish speaking community with only 18% of it's citizens speaking Spanish. Granted though, they should still have have some bi-lingual folk working in hospitals over there. Los Angeles never runs into this problem with nearly half of it's citizens speaking Spanish.

I hope to at some point. I guess I'll spell it out for you: French is about as official there as English is here. Yet, everything official there is done in French, despite large groups of immigrants from northern Africa. It's faintly reminiscent of the situation here, except that now, people here feel that any little thing you ask of a person from another culture is infringing on their freedom. They're not under that delusion there.

When France is considered part of the USA, I'll apply it to this thread

 

[Magic Man]

It is the case.

Go ahead, I've got a online translator.

I'm not ignoring it, I just don't agree with it. Nice use of a straw man again.

Acting as if I haven't given evidence or support for an argument when I have is actually kind of the definition of ignoring.

Morals matter a great deal.

Yes, they do, except, of course, in a conversation where they're irrelevant.

and those certain people happen to be the government.

It is unfortunate, isn't it? I have faith that that'll change someday, though.

Laws and government do change. Fortunately for people who think like me, this law hasn't.

There, that's better.

To me, slavery is in no way morally comparable to not speaking English. Please use another example.

When did I say it was morally comparable? That's why I said the morality part was irrelevant. It's a perfectly good example. I'm sorry you don't have a way to refute it, but it's still a very good argument for my side of this. It's an example of a non-law that became a law when it was realized that it would be a good idea. That correlates perfectly to the fact that there's no law making everything official mandatorially in English, but once it's realized that it would be a good idea, it will be. Same thing.

And again, please provide some figures that show exactly how detrimental non=English speaking is to America.

If that's what it takes. It'll take a while, though. Will that really change your mind at all, though? Isn't it already obvious that we spend a lot of money and time on translating for people because they haven't learned English?

Nothing really needs fixing though. That it where you and I don't see eye-to-eye.

See above.

I thought I've answered your question pretty clearly...no, it shouldn't be.

Right, and I've answered yours clearly. It should be for the reasons I've brought up.

We'll have to respectfully disagree.

I think it's too late for that.

I wasn't aware people considered Brooklyn a dominant Spanish speaking community with only 18% of it's citizens speaking Spanish. Granted though, they should still have have some bi-lingual folk working in hospitals over there. Los Angeles never runs into this problem with nearly half of it's citizens speaking Spanish.

All right, then it should be easy for you to show some evidence of that. By the way, what happens if you do live in those neighborhoods in Brooklyn where Spanish dominates? You wouldn't need to learn English if you're living in that particular area, right? Or do you only break it down to cities or towns? Where is the cut-off?

Also, it doesn't have to be one language dominant, does it? If you don't need English in an area, does it matter that the people speak 4 different languages in the city? As long as they're not speaking English, right? Then everyone should accomodate to al 4 of them, shouldn't they?

When France is considered part of the USA, I'll apply it to this thread

So, you don't like analogies, huh? I'm sorry, I thought it was pretty obvious that I was saying that English really is the official language, just like French is the official language in France. So, we should uphold that, instead of letting it break down. They do everything in French because they realize how much it saves them. We should follow suit, so that we can start to get out of this outrageous debt we have.