Should Feminists be encouraging women to be strippers?

[ignition]

Although, I don't know much about strip clubs in terms of studies, in my opinion they are a symptom of patriarchy and are objectifying, which I don't see as an individual thing, they are objectifying full stop.

Hear, hear.

 

[ignition]

I would love to dance in front of women.
M.V.

Not just dance, imagine them taking your clothes off as well. I'd be off-the-charts horny.

 

[Wherenextcolumbus]

Do you see watching strippers as intrinsically objectifying? And if so, why? How is that possible?

In what context do you think paying for a stripper is not objectifying?
The point of strip clubs is for women is present themselves to hetero-normative, white beauty standards, while wearing foot binding shoes, and competing sexually with other women, to get the most money, from mostly men.

 

[Poeticus]

I'd be off-the-charts horny.

Namaste,

Too much (info), brah. Too much.

M.V.

 

[Sunstone]

In what context do you think paying for a stripper is not objectifying?

Since I asked first, please answer my questions first. Then I'll answer yours.

The point of strip clubs is for women is present themselves to hetero-normative, white beauty standards, while wearing foot binding shoes, and competing sexually with other women, to get the most money, from mostly men.

This sounds very much to me like gross and naive spin. Have you been to many strip clubs? Have you seen many strippers? On what information do you base your assessments?

 

[Poeticus]

Namaste,

In what context do you think paying for a stripper is not objectifying?

And, in a matriarchal universe, the women would pay the men. Not a big difference. If an artful "service" was given, one should pay if those were the terms of agreement.

Prostitution/Stripping > "whoring" (and that argument is so controversial, I won't even go into it...)

The point of strip clubs is for women is present themselves to hetero-normative, white beauty standards

What world do you live in, dear sir?

M.V.

ps: > meaning "greater than"...

 

[Wherenextcolumbus]

Since I asked first, please answer my questions first. Then I'll answer yours.



This sounds very much to me like gross and naive spin. Have you been to many strip clubs? Have you seen many strippers? On what information do you base your assessments?

I asked so you can educate me since you like strip clubs.

It's the sex industry standards in general.

 

[Penumbra]

Definitely.

On what are you basing this opinion?

 

[Sunstone]

I asked so you can educate me since you like strip clubs.

Against my better judgement, I'll allow you to play coy about responding to my questions. You asked, "In what context do you think paying for a stripper is not objectifying?" I would then ask, "Is it objectifying to pay for anything? Does buying a work of art objectify the artist? Does buying a car objectify the salesperson? If so, how exactly does it do that? If not, then how exactly is buying a strip show any different?

It's the sex industry standards in general.

The sex industry has some admittedly low standards. However, that does not negate that some stripping -- albeit not the majority of it, so far as I can see -- approaches or is an art. You would do away with all of it. I, on the contrary, would take the art and ignore the rest.

 

[Poeticus]

On what are you basing this opinion?

Namaste,

You really believe that if women were in power (in the place of men - and the current human species structure was upside down and completely opposite of what is today) that they wouldn't have full blown male strippers dancing for them?

M.V.

ps - Check out posts #160 and #125, when you have time, Penumbra-ji.

 

[Shermana]

The last several pages of this thread don't seem to contain any real arguments against the responses put forth to the OP, which leads me to believe that the thread was primarily intended as a passive attack on feminism in an attempt to discredit it.

How do you draw that conclusion? I've simply been responding to people trying to get around the questions of the OP or are challenging the ideas presented in the implications. How is the OP not an effectively neutral question?

Wow, this is the kind of response I get when other people try to deny and dismiss the idea that women are being sexually objectified?

This response leads me to believe that people aren't actually interested in discussing the implications of encouraging women to be strippers.

Or perhaps you feel there's only one form of Feminism, as I've clearly demonstrated is not the case? Are you saying that Feminists who disagree with Stripping are passively attacking Feminism?

 

[Penumbra]

You really believe that if women were in power (in the place of men - and the current human species structure was upside down and completely opposite of what is today) that they wouldn't have full blown male strippers?

There already are full blown male strippers. The ratio from sources I've seen is 9 to 1, female to male.

You don't need to be in power to have strippers- you just need a market for it.

Besides, matriarchal societies have historically tended be egalitarian rather than particularly one-sided. In practice, matriarchies tend not to be the mirror opposite of patriarchies.

 

[Sunstone]

Besides, matriarchal societies have historically tended be egalitarian rather than particularly one-sided. In practice, matriarchies tend not to be the mirror opposite of patriarchies.

I believe this is true. Especially that matriarchies tend not to be the mirror opposite of patriarchies. Instead, they are radically different, not just mirror opposites.

 

[Sunstone]

Please allow me to ask my questions again: Do you see watching strippers as intrinsically objectifying? And if so, why? How is that possible?

 

[Poeticus]

There already are full blown male strippers. The ratio from sources I've seen is 9 to 1, female to male.

You don't need to be in power to have strippers- you just need a market for it.

Besides, matriarchal societies have historically tended be egalitarian rather than particularly one-sided. In practice, matriarchies tend not to be the mirror opposite of patriarchies.

Namaste,

But, there will still be a sex trade in a matriarchal world (with the "strippers" being mostly men in this situation). It isn't as lovey dovey as one would envision it to be, Lady Penumbra-ji. Plus, I am all for a matriarchal society. A female fighting with a sword, commanding me around...I would be in heaven!

M.V.

 

[ignition]

You don't need to be in power to have strippers- you just need a market for it.

Even if you believe that the market is demand-led, you still kind of have to think about what helped create that demand. which could be those in power. Like you said in another thread, women do find men's bodies sexy, yet the Sun only has a woman's boobs on page 3, there's nothing for women. Is it because there's no demand for seeing men's torso? I highly doubt it.

 

[Wherenextcolumbus]

Against my better judgement, I'll allow you to play coy about responding to my questions. You asked, "In what context do you think paying for a stripper is not objectifying?" I would then ask, "Is it objectifying to pay for anything? Does buying a work of art objectify the artist? Does buying a car objectify the salesperson? If so, how exactly does it do that? If not, then how exactly is buying a strip show any different?



The sex industry has some admittedly low standards. However, that does not negate that some stripping -- albeit not the majority of it, so far as I can see -- approaches or is an art. You would do away with all of it. I, on the contrary, would take the art and ignore the rest.

No buying art doesn't objectify the artist, in my opinion art is the creation of something to convey meaning, a message.
How are strip clubs art?

So are you saying the purpose of strip clubs is to sell performance art?

 

[Poeticus]

No buying art doesn't objectify the artist, in my opinion art is the creation of something to convey meaning, a message.
How are strip clubs art?

So are you saying the purpose of strip clubs is to sell performance art?

Namaste,

The way the artist (the stripper) dances; to an inquisitive and detail oriented eye, the art can be distinguished easily.

M.V.

ps - Sorry for interrupting...

 

[Sunstone]

No buying art doesn't objectify the artist, in my opinion art is the creation of something to convey meaning, a message.
How are strip clubs art?

So are you saying the purpose of strip clubs is to sell performance art?

So far as I know, the performances of most strippers do not rise to the level of an art (unless one very broadly defines art, which would be a legitimate point). But some strippers do indeed express their sexuality through dance and movement. Those are the artists. Some are better than others, but that doesn't change the fact that some strippers, if only a relative few, are indeed creating art. Now, how does figure into your view of things?

 

[Wherenextcolumbus]

In my opinion the purpose of a strip club, much like lad magazines and pornography, is to sell a limited sexual representation of women for mostly men and to compete with other women in a sexual way for money? How wrong am I? Please explain to me?