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Should fighting sports be legal? Are they moral?

ChristineM

ChristineM

"Be strong", I whispered to my coffee.
Premium Member
Mr. Muto said:
@ChristineM The Bible says he destroyed the black market in the church. Jesus never hurt anyone.
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The bible says a lot of things. And different things depending on which of the hundreds of different versions you chose. Which version of the bible do you favour?

Apparently he whips sheep and bulls, kind of sad really to whip defenceless animals. We have adopted a cat that was beaten by it's previous owner, the poor thing is still traumatised and quakes in the presence of objects similar to those used such as a ruler, a belt, even picking up a shoe to put on your foot cam do it.

And what were the threats to people strong enough to drive the vendors out.
 
Viker

Viker

Your beloved eccentric Auntie Cristal
Mr. Muto said:
I think they’re not moral under any circumstances. Boxers and martial artists unfortunately think that with rules and golden glitter, fights are justified and these fights happen for little reason other than money. It is a cruel and unusual thing with or without consent to hypocritically allow violence of any kind in our society. Violence is for the animals. We are people. Not just as sons of God, but by nature we are supposed to be above the animals, not copying them or doing worse things than those unreasonable creatures.
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We are animals and we are people. This is one of the things we do, fight each other. Better it be in a regulated and controlled arena. Even like the forum you are currently posting within.

We are animals and we are people. We do things worse than nonhuman animals could ever be capable of. We're not special and we're not "above" nonhuman animals.
 
Twilight Hue

Twilight Hue

Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
Mr. Muto said:
I wonder why all of you work so hard to advocate for violence in the ring.
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Probably because we rely on our protectors and admire individual strength and courage as positive aspirations for a healthy society.

Many people need their heros to look up to.
 
vulcanlogician

vulcanlogician

Well-Known Member
Mr. Muto said:
I want to clear some things up:

1. Ethics is an OBJECTIVE thing.
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True. (At least, I think it's a pretty sound conclusion to say ethics is an objective thing.)

The Bible spells out ethics, it IS where ethics came from.

God is the Father of morality. It is an objective thing.
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I disgree here

2. The Bible condemns ALL violence with the exclusion of self defense with life I believe. I don’t know. But I do know Jesus Christ said,

“If someone slaps you, turn the other cheek,”
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I interpret the Bible the same as you do in this regard. I agree with you here concerning what the text says. A believing Christian ought to be nonviolent. But I wonder if this extends to boxing and the like.

3. Consent or simply wanting to do something does not make it ethically correct.
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Sure it does, doesn't it? So long as no non non-consenting party gets hurt. My dad and I used to have wrestling matches in the living room. It was great fun! Does that count as unethical in your view? Keep in mind, that bumps and bruises DID occur.


If I thought it was right or justifiable to kill someone, is that ethical?

In the same way, even when fighters get into the ring to hurt the other and themselves, it is still not ethically justified.
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As you've stated it here, I think this last bit is a non sequitur. Can you elaborate on what you mean by this last part?
 
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Shadow Wolf

Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber & Business Owner
Viker said:
We are animals and we are people. This is one of the things we do, fight each other. Better it be in a regulated and controlled arena. Even like the forum you are currently posting within.
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Yeah. I may scoff at the idea of people beating each other's brains in, but regulating it to sanction it in a controlled environment is very likely for the best. It lets fighters fight in a way that encourages them to keep it in the ring. That's probably the most civilized thing that works best for all that we can offer for those who just want to fight.
 
setarcos

setarcos

The hopeful or the hopeless?
Mr. Muto said:
I think they’re not moral under any circumstances. Boxers and martial artists unfortunately think that with rules and golden glitter, fights are justified and these fights happen for little reason other than money. It is a cruel and unusual thing with or without consent to hypocritically allow violence of any kind in our society. Violence is for the animals. We are people. Not just as sons of God, but by nature we are supposed to be above the animals, not copying them or doing worse things than those unreasonable creatures.
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We are animals first and foremost. But we are also elevated animals in that we have relatively sophisticated cognitive abilities and or spiritual gifts ,some would say, which have evolved mankind beyond simple instinctual and base behaviors of survival and dominance. What you see in the ring with people purposefully attempting to injure and or subdue by force other people is the nexus at which the animal meets the "evolved enlightened mind". Those that are enlightened see only the animal in the violent sports and those that enjoy participating in the violent sports can't see beyond their imagined superiority in their prowess. In my opinion, those that enjoy watching violence in sport are closer to their primitive side than either the participant or those that find such things distasteful.
However I also believe that practice in the art of self defense of ones life is ethical and of necessity in this world.
I cannot see though, how taking pleasure in and paying to be entertained with the purposeful infliction of pain on another human being can be very moral. Even with willing participants whose behavior by its very nature surely does not take into consideration the potential morality of inflicting harm upon another person no matter how willing that other person is to receive that harm.
 
Subduction Zone

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
ChristineM said:
There is evidence certain places and ancillary people existed, there is no evidence to suggest the main character (god) existed or and corroborated evidence that jesus existed as described
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Yes. And it does generally get more accurate the more recent that it is, but again we can see serious problems between the gospels.
 
9-10ths_Penguin

9-10ths_Penguin

1/10 Subway Stalinist
Premium Member
Mr. Muto said:
@9-10ths_Penguin And also, if you think my religion is immoral, it’s been terribly misrepresented.
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Misrepresented... by you? I'm only talking about what you've said.

Mr. Muto said:
And I’m not trying to force you to do my beliefs. Guiding and forcing aren’t the same.
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When you talk about what we "allow in our society," it certainly sounds like you're talking abput forcing people.
 
Brickjectivity

Brickjectivity

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
Mr. Muto said:
...And also, if you think my religion is immoral, it’s been terribly misrepresented....
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Generally I think you will find that to be the case in open debates here, particularly representations of canonical scriptures. Pretty much all religions have a rough time of it. Even the neopagans (who are so trendy lately). In this thread the topic is about whether sport fighting is ethical, but notice how it has shifted to accusations that the bible supports prostitution? Its nowhere near to what you're talking about; but generally you can't make any points unless you're talking to people who are genuinely interested staying on the topic. They have to care about what you're discussing. There's no exchange where I care about your topic and trust that you'll care about my topic later. That doesn't happen very often. Maybe in academia it happens.

Asking people to focus on your topic is actually a high bar, because not everybody gravitates towards the topic you'd like. If we had a lot more people you could probably find a group that would stay on topic, put your conversation into a section of the forum that was just for your group.

Therefore a lot of debate starts with bait and ends with switch. Bait Switch Bait Switch. Its pretty awful. I tend to stay out of it or keep my threads short. Nevertheless I've stuck with this forum for a long time. Its interesting, and the people are generally quite smart.
 
Secret Chief

Secret Chief

Very strong language
ChristineM said:
I assume you have not read the OT which accounts for 85% of the bible. It is one of the most willfully violent books ever written. Far from condemning violence the god character condones violence, slavery, sex slavery, rape, theft, he even partakes in murders and genocide

Let me tell you a story. I was violently raped with no way to defend myself. I decided it would not let it happen again so i took up the sport of krav maga for a few months until i had learned enough to defend myself. I do not watch such sport, they give me no enjoyment but if i am ever attacked again i truly hope my attacker(s) enjoys hospital food.

We are animals.
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Never heard of krav maga so just watched some youtube on it. Can I just say that if I have ever disagreed with you I retract it entirely.
 
Mock Turtle

Mock Turtle

Oh my, did I say that!
Premium Member
Mr. Muto said:
I wonder why all of you work so hard to advocate for violence in the ring.
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Not me, especially as to boxing, and even if the life of Muhammad Ali is hardly typical for boxers, his later life might serve as an example as to what might come from such. Much the same applies to many martial arts too (greater points for head-shots?) although they all seem to have head-protection - not that this might avoid all the head trauma though. Perhaps we will be seeing virtual fights in the future as being the norm. :oops:

I'm just not that inclined to get into a boxing match over this issue. :eek:
 
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