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Should hadiths be rejected?

Mycroft

Ministry of Serendipity
First, let's be real. Jesus taught to love your neighbor and treat them like yourself. He also LIVED by what He preached by forgiving those who tortured and murdered Him. So since He is the Founder of the religion, the follower (Christian) who does the opposite of that by murdering people is not following Him at all. Can't really blame the religion can you?
Now about the Inquisition. The inquisition where approximately 1,500 to 4,000 people were killed in a span of 350 years. Which is a max of about 11 people a year. And while that's 11 people too many, and very unchristian but it's hardly a genocide like atheist regimes. You'll find more people gunned down in Chicago in a month more then each year of the Inquisition.

But god says he'll throw all the nonbelievers into a burning lake of Sulphur. Now history reports that there was another guy who decided to kill everyone who didn't agree with his 'vision.' His name was Adolf Hitler. The teachings of Jesus are, in the end, eclipsed by the fascist subtext of god's message.

According to revelation, christianity (in this case) hasn't yet finished with the idea of murdering millions of people.

Also: Christian terrorism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 

JFish123

Active Member
But god says he'll throw all the nonbelievers into a burning lake of Sulphur. Now history reports that there was another guy who decided to kill everyone who didn't agree with his 'vision.' His name was Adolf Hitler. The teachings of Jesus are, in the end, eclipsed by the fascist subtext of god's message.

According to revelation, christianity (in this case) hasn't yet finished with the idea of murdering millions of people.

Also: Christian terrorism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
For one, God doesn't send anyone to Hell. You send yourself there. God has done everything He possibly can to keep you out of Hell and still leave you as a person with free will and not just a robot. That's the way He made us--after His image, after His likeness, the power to say “yes” or the power to say “no,” the power to reject our own Creator, and of course to take the consequences.

In one sense you can say He doesn't send anybody to Hell, because across the road to Hell he has placed the cross of Christ. There are also the prayers of parents, pastors and Sunday school teachers, and all the other things that God brings into our lives to stop us on our selfish way and to bring us to the Savior. We have to go wandering on past it all and put ourselves in Hell.

"We may rest assured that no one will suffer in hell who could by any means have been won to Christ in this life. God leaves no stone unturned to rescue all who would respond to the convicting and wooing of the Holy Spirit."
- Dave Hunt

Sometimes you hear people say, "God wouldn't send His children to Hell." God certainly doesn't send His children to Hell because when we're His children we're in the family of God. We're born again and part of our salvation includes deliverance from judgment. We're not all children of God except through faith in Christ Jesus.

Can a God of love send anyone to Hell? You might as well ask some other question to make just as much sense. Does God allow disease in the world? Does God allow jails and prisons for some people? Does God allow the electric chair sometimes? Does God allow sin to break homes and hearts? Does God allow war? All of these things are the consequences of sin entering into the world, and in some cases the direct result of man's rebellion, and the result of greed and pride and egotism and hunger for power that doesn't have any use for people--only the desire to get ahead.

This is the incredible fruit of sin. Sin brings suffering into the world. There's no way of getting around it. And the greatest sin in the world is to reject the Lord Jesus Christ as Savior.

"I willingly believe that the damned are, in one sense, successful, rebels to the end; that the doors of hell are locked on the inside. All that are in Hell, choose it. Without that self-choice there could be no Hell. No soul that seriously and constantly desires joy will ever miss it. Those who seek find. To those who knock it is opened. And yourself, in a dark hour, may will [a grumbling] mood, embrace it. Ye can repent and come out of it again. But there may come a day when you can do that no longer. Then there will be no you left to criticize the mood…"
—excerpted from The Problem of Pain and The Great Divorce, by C.S. Lewis (1898-1963), included in The Quotable Lewis, 1989 Tyndale

The loving nature of God requires justice if it is to be meaningful, and the justice of God requires punishment if it is to be fair. At the same time, human freedom must result in a consequence if it is to be significant, and the consequence for evil actions must ultimately be appropriate if God is to be just. Finally, the power of God necessitates victory, and eternal victory requires an eternal mode of punishment. The paradox of God’s love and justice necessitates the existence of Hell.

God’s love does not compel Him to eliminate the necessary punishment and consequence for sin, but instead compels Him to offer us a way to avoid this consequence altogether. By offering forgiveness through the sacrifice of Christ on the cross (who took our punishment), God demonstrated His love for us. It cannot be said that a loving God would never create a place like Hell if that same God has provided us with a way to avoid it which is through Jesus Christ.
 

Mycroft

Ministry of Serendipity
For one, God doesn't send anyone to Hell. You send yourself there. God has done everything He possibly can to keep you out of Hell and still leave you as a person with free will and not just a robot.

If I put a gun to your head and say 'Do what I tell you, and I won't kill you.' You choose not to do this thing and I kill you. Did you kill yourself?
 

JFish123

Active Member
If I put a gun to your head and say 'Do what I tell you, and I won't kill you.' You choose not to do this thing and I kill you. Did you kill yourself?
Bad analogy. God doesn't put a gun to our head. We do it ourselves. We hold the gun. He's the one who constantly tries to talk us down. But there are those who don't listen. Just one sin loads the gun with the bullet. Every sin we do just adds fuel to the fire, until we have an entire arsenal aimed at us as we hold the button to our own destruction.
Only God would do everything in His power to save us, even sending His son to die in our place for us so we can be saved. His son willingly took the bullets for us that we loaded for ourselves. And yet all we have to do us accept His son Jesus and follow Him (which entails us putting down the gun-our pride). But many of us just keep loading the bullets, not caring about Him or His Son.
 

wizanda

One Accepts All Religious Texts
Premium Member
In most religions globally, there are problems from the texts that come after, and are then ascribed to the original author... Even if they contradict the original authors work. :confused:
 

leibowde84

Veteran Member
If the religion forbid murder even to the point of Jesus commanding if you even hate someone in your heart, that it's tantamount to murder then you really can't blame the religion. People can call themselves Christian but if they don't follow what Christianity commands how are they Christian? I mean I can call myself an atheist, but I think my actions of praying to God, reading the bible, and going to church would disagree with my words somewhat wouldn't they.
My point is this. You seem to equate what Christianity demands with what Jesus demanded. I don't see them as the same, as men like Paul, who came after Jesus and never met him face to face, claimed to speak for him. Since then, there have been many members of the Church, especially Popes, who have claimed to speak for Jesus. So, now, it is a challenge to figure out what Jesus actually demanded and what the early Church added on. So, it doesn't seem as simple as you claim.
 

Shia Islam

Quran and Ahlul-Bayt a.s.
Premium Member
Do you deny that the Hadith's cause division in Islam? Isn't that exactly the opposite of what Muhammad wanted? If so, why not just get rid of them?

A big portion of Hadith is agreed upon to be correct.
Also for Shia, they believe that God sent the Imams after the prophet to complete his mission.

What is more, is that anyone who studied Islam knows that you can't have "Islam" without the Hadith...

It's the Hadith that defines Islam.
 

leibowde84

Veteran Member
A big portion of Hadith is agreed upon to be correct.
Also for Shia, they believe that God sent the Imams after the prophet to complete his mission.

What is more, is that anyone who studied Islam knows that you can't have "Islam" without the Hadith...

It's the Hadith that defines Islam.
So, the Quran doesn't define Islam?
 

Shia Islam

Quran and Ahlul-Bayt a.s.
Premium Member
So, why do you trust those who wrote it? And, why do so many Muslims disagree about the validity of Hadiths?

Muslims agree in the Validity of big portion of the Hadiths.
Some Hadiths are sermons that the prophet gave in front of thousands of his companions...

and these Hadith reached us from from many different sources ...

Some Hadiths are letters that the prophet wrote...

and of course after the prophet died, the 'ISIS' tyrannies of that era made up many Hadiths to enhance their causes...

However, unbiased scholars can identify the correct Hadiths through a science called "the Science of Rijal"
 

leibowde84

Veteran Member
Muslims agree in the Validity of big portion of the Hadiths.
Some Hadiths are sermons that the prophet gave in front of thousands of his companions...

and these Hadith reached us from from many different sources ...

Some Hadiths are letters that the prophet wrote...

and of course after the prophet died, the 'ISIS' tyrannies of that era made up many Hadiths to enhance their causes...

However, unbiased scholars can identify the correct Hadiths through a science called "the Science of Rijal"
Which are the correct ones, and how were they verified to be so? Just curious. Thanks for the info.
 

morphesium

Active Member
Yeah after all humans are so good on there own without religion. I remember the good ole days of Stalin, Pol Pot, and Ma Ze Dong... Ah, those were the days :) not to mention abortions and euthenasia liberal atheists love to throw out there too :)
Civilization at its finest, yes sir :)
Morale has nothing to do with religion and I agree that being an atheist doesn't mean one has any higher morale than a theist or the other way.
And as far as Stalin, Pol Pot etc are concerned, such people never justified their actions from thier "atheism"nor did they claim to do what they did "in the name of atheism", unlike many religious dictators have done with their religions. If these people were religious, they would have more reasons to kill people.
Not to mention there are other scores of other religious and cruel dictators and there are many who tortured and killed just because of their religion. Besides, what is the morale of those deeply reiligious ISIS people??

Another thing I have to point out is about the duration of their rule. The rule of the dictators like Pol Pot, Stalin etc, lasted for 4, 10 or at the most 50 years. After that the revolt against these rulers gains strength and finally they win , which puts an end to the darkage and hardships. On the other hand the rule of the "religious darkages" spans for thousands of years. People, despite their hardships, will not revolt fearing that they could be revolting against their religion and believing that it is God himself that has given them such hardships so that they could be tested or that their hardships have some purpose. They will never revolt, only suffer, suffer and suffer.

"All religions are equally sublime to the ignorant,
useful to the politician, and ridiculous to the philosopher". —Lucretius

"Religion is regarded by the common people as true,
by the philosophers as false,
and by the rulers as useful". —Seneca the Younger

"Religion is an insult to human dignity. With or without it
you would have good people doing good things and evil
people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things,

that takes religion". —Steven Weinberg

“…. Too often religion has been an aphrodisiac for horror, a Benzedrine for bestiality. At its best it has lifted spirits and raised spires. At its worst it has turned entire civilizations into cemeteries". —Phillip Adams
 
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