Should incest be banned?

[Father Heathen]

Now, would you sleep with your sister and if not, why not?

Personally, I find incest to be disturbing and disgusting, but you can't base laws on emotional reaction. I also find your religious beliefs to be disturbing and disgusting as well, but I still support your right to believe and practice it as you wish. If all involved are consenting adults, and they aren't violating other people's rights in the process, then there is no legitimate reason for the law to intervene.

 

[McBell]

Personally, I find incest to be disturbing and disgusting, but you can't base laws on emotional reaction. I also find your religious beliefs to be disturbing and disgusting as well, but I still support your right to believe and practice it as you wish. If all involved are consenting adults, and they aren't violating other people's rights in the process, then there is no legitimate reason for the law to intervene.

but...
but...
it's so yucky!!!

 

[Tiberius]

yes, they have both suffered subconscious psychological abuse.

yes, they have both acted immorally.

yes, they have both harmed each other.

Perhaps you missed the part where I asked you to BE SPECIFIC.

 

[nnmartin]

Interesting, you are suggesting that biology is more important than an entire lifetime of experiences in determining the morality

It's more important in determining the appropriateness of a sexual partnership, yes.

What about half-siblings, they have comparable genetic similarities as cousins do.

Half-sibling incest is also immoral.

 

[nnmartin]

I also find your religious beliefs to be disturbing and disgusting as well

would you care to give an example?

 

[InformedIgnorance]

Half-sibling incest is also immoral.

Yet the parties have a comparable level of genetic similarity (which you have identified as being the key determinant of whether it is immoral) as cousins do (a relationship you have identified as being acceptable though distasteful)

Cousins have six grandparents (two are common) i.e. because both of the grandparents of one of the parents are common
Half siblings have six grandparents (two are common) i.e. because one of the parents is common, the grandparents from that parent are also common

So since the degree of genetic similarity is indistinguishable, what is the reason for the difference in how you treat them?

 

[Father Heathen]

would you care to give an example?

Geez, where to begin.

There's the homophobia and misogyny, the advocacy of oppression and subjugation, and the anti-freedom and anti-science sentiments, to name a few. I can't abide beliefs that are an affront to both reason and compassion.

 

[nnmartin]

Informed:

so it's the mathematical approach now is it?

to avoid these sort of conundrums we have a simple solution:

Ban all incest inside the traditional generic family unit.

A mathematician and genetics expert could work out the exact ratios if need be when drawing up the law.

But, I really have no intention of getting bogged down in a pointless numbers and fractions debate here.

 

[InformedIgnorance]

Informed:

so it's the mathematical approach now is it?

No, I was simply showing you that you had a significant inconsistency in your approach to two situations with the criteria you were claiming to use as the basis of differentiation.

to avoid these sort of conundrums we have a simple solution:

Ban all incest outside of the traditional generic family unit.

I suppose you mean INSIDE correct? In which case what if they do not conform to the traditional generic family unit?

A mathematician and genetics expert could work out the exact ratios if need be when drawing up the law.

But, I really have no intention of getting bogged down in a pointless numbers and fractions debate here.

And yet you claim that cousins are an acceptable relationship while half siblings are not... that is not about a specific number.

I am not attempting to attack your position - I am seeking to understand WHY you think one is acceptable and the other is not; so please do not take my questions amiss.

 

[Tiberius]

Yo, Martin, don't forget to give SPECIFIC examples of harm that are caused in the scenario I presented as a hypothetical.

 

[nnmartin]

I suppose you mean INSIDE correct? In which case what if they do not conform to the traditional generic family unit?

And yet you claim that cousins are an acceptable relationship while half siblings are not... that is not about a specific number.

I am not attempting to attack your position - I am seeking to understand WHY you think one is acceptable and the other is not; so please do not take my questions amiss.

Ok, yes - I meant inside the family unit - post now edited.

First cousins is a slightly grey area that I think should also be banned too.

Like I said - a mathematician could draw a line in the sand regarding the exact exclusions but that is a minor point overall.

 

[InformedIgnorance]

Okay let us ignore the fractions for a moment...

To you, what is the difference between sexual relations between cousins as opposed to half-siblings? Why is one 'acceptable' (though distasteful) yet the other not?

 

[nnmartin]

A half-sibling has one of the same biological parents.

so a relationship here would be immoral.

 

[nnmartin]

Yo, Martin, don't forget to give SPECIFIC examples of harm that are caused in the scenario I presented as a hypothetical.

I've already answered your questions time and time again yet on and on you go - never accepting anything if it differs with your viewpoint.

Even if I were to dig up a report from somewhere that specifically gave scientific evidence of anything you would either just attempt to refute it or come back with some kind of counter claim.

It appears to me, that morality counts for little in your view as you constantly seem to make out that it has no value.

 

[Zoe Doidge]

yes, they have both suffered subconscious psychological abuse.

No country has ever performed a study on this, because it is not possible within the framework of their law. So where did you even get this idea? On what are you basing this assertion? You seem to be just making up your reasons as you go along.

yes, they have both acted immorally.

yes, they have both harmed each other.

Only if the above can be shown to be true.

 

[Tiberius]

I've already answered your questions time and time again yet on and on you go - never accepting anything if it differs with your viewpoint.

I'm sorry, but I must have missed the post where you SPECIFICALLY show how Billy and Sally suffered harm or abuse. You certainly didn't post such SPECIFIC examples after I presented my hypothetical situation. Perhaps you posted it in the past, having use your magical abilities to see into the future to enable you to answer a question before I asked it?

Even if I were to dig up a report from somewhere that specifically gave scientific evidence of anything you would either just attempt to refute it or come back with some kind of counter claim.

I don't know. Why don't you try it and see. Providing that your source is legitimate and scientific, I won't have a problem with it.

It appears to me, that morality counts for little in your view as you constantly seem to make out that it has no value.

No, it would actually be more accurate to say that YOUR morality counts for little as far as I am concerned.

 

[Ozzie]

This topic has been mentioned in passing in a few threads recently so I thought it would be time to address the issue head on.

Should incest be banned and is it wrong?

I'd say yes and yes.

All the supposed logical fallacies apply here:

It's depraved, immoral, leads to retardation, God forbids it, its unnatural and is just out and out weird. Many more issues of course as well.

Subjective, objective or whatever type of reasoning - it is wrong and should be banned.

When I say incest I'm really talking about close family members.

I'll try to be open minded here but I can't really see any justification for legalisation.


Anyone have anything to say on this?

In Aus cousins can marry and I guess carry on as they want. I think Grandparents and grandchildren can too, but not marry (I might be wrong here). All very distasteful IMHO irrespective of "legalities": better described as an abomination and evidence of familial dysfunction.

 

[nnmartin]

that sounds like a sensible post.

We need more comments like that in these parts if you ask me

 

[McBell]

I've already answered your questions time and time again yet on and on you go - never accepting anything if it differs with your viewpoint.

Even if I were to dig up a report from somewhere that specifically gave scientific evidence of anything you would either just attempt to refute it or come back with some kind of counter claim.

It appears to me, that morality counts for little in your view as you constantly seem to make out that it has no value.

It appears to me that truth and facts mean little to you when it comes to what you want to be moral and immoral.

 

[nnmartin]

I have provided facts though - genetic abnormalities.

do you claim that incest does not cause these?