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Should incest be banned?

rageoftyrael

Veritas
Seriously! Your arguments are ridiculous! Neo-logic, your best argument so far has basically been about how the children of incestuous sex have a higher chance of defects. This has been deflected in several ways.

1. Having children is usually not even a desire, and can easily be avoided, in these modern times. And even if they do want children, so what? Considering the first thing it seems that most people think of is birth defects, if they choose to have children, they will be aware of those chances, and presumably accept them. We are not an endangered species, we do NOT need to try and control who a very, very small percentage of the population have sex with.

2. That's right, i'm tired of the fear mongering. There are billions of us, and you guys seriously want to sit here and talk about how incest is magically gonna cause our species to become weaker? The percentage of people who want to have sex with their relatives is pretty small. Of those, an even smaller percentage want to have children with each other. So, you wanna know why that argument doesn't work? Cause there are too many of us! We are too diverse.

As for your other so called arguments, it seems they can be lumped into two groups. 1. It's gross. 2. It can cause mental/psychological/spiritual damage.

So, to address number one. Who cares! I think it's gross but it doesn't mean it should be banned! As for number two, who cares! Even if we were to allow for the fact that consenting incestuous sex did somehow cause deleterious emotional effects, that's their problem, isn't it? It can cause deleterious emotional effects to have sex with an ex-girlfriend, but we haven't outlawed that, have we?

Incest should not be illegal anymore, and i'll tell you why. It's an outdated law. It doesn't serve any purpose to outlaw it anymore. The fear of children with potential birth defects can be ignored, cause either people can avoid having children, with relative ease in our modern times, or, unlike in the past, they are aware of the potential issues that can arise, so if they choose to have children anyway, it won't come as a surprise if the child has issues. As for supposed emotional issues, people should have the right to mess up their own lives as they see fit, and not have thought police try and protect them from themselves. As for the gross factor, well, that is really the least important aspect of all, isn't it? I think my parents having sex is gross, should i outlaw it?

And finally, to nip any further argument in the bud, rape, molestation, abuse and so forth, while can all be tied into incest, do not inherently have anything to do with incest. These are all bad in and of themselves, and the incest doesn't really matter, does it?

So, seriously guys, get over your yuck reflex, get over your thought police reflex, and realize that incest isn't that bad.
 

nnmartin

Well-Known Member
Oh, is that the best you have? If I was arguing in support of gay marriage, would you accuse me of being gay?

interestingly enough I have never seen you participate in one of the numerous gay marriage/adoption type threads that have proliferated here recently. Yet you seem to have a major bee in your bonnet about incest and bestiality.

why is that?
 

rageoftyrael

Veritas
perhaps because arguments for and against gay marriage/adoptions are very common, thus after awhile can be boring, and bestiality/incest threads are more rare, not brought up anywhere near as often, thus more interesting.... not that your speculation as to why tiberius does or doesn't supposedly participate in certain threads matter. stick to the topic buddy, cause you are starting to walk down troll road.
 

Tiberius

Well-Known Member
interestingly enough I have never seen you participate in one of the numerous gay marriage/adoption type threads that have proliferated here recently. Yet you seem to have a major bee in your bonnet about incest and bestiality.

why is that?

Because you argue against it and I think your arguments are weak and foolish.

Plus what Rage said...
 

Big_TJ

Active Member
It's already been discussed that subliminal abuse issues leading to lack of true informed consent is a factor that would be very hard to prove.

However , this combined with the objective genetic issues add up strongly in favour of banning incest.

I am always bothered by this quesion as it relates to incest so probably you can help me out. Your post keep mentioning "subliminal abuse" as a reason why insects should be banned. So, what if a 70 year old man and is 50 year old daughter who lives at seperate locations decide to "get it on." What would be your reason for suggesting that they should be thrown in jail?
 

Tiberius

Well-Known Member
And what pray tell is this negative message, Martin?

(BTW, good to see you back for some more thrashing. :p)
 

nnmartin

Well-Known Member
thanks and for sure, I am always happy to come back and give you a good whipping!:)

now, the negative message is obvious.

if the government allows for a mother to sleep with her son then this is a form of legalised perversion. This would let young people believe that this kind of socially irresponsible behaviour is ok and will lead to untold levels of barbarism.

this is actually happening today as evidenced by the increased levels of crime and delinquency.

there are many factors contributing to this of course, but it is the supposed 'freedom' that allows for it to flourish.
 

InformedIgnorance

Do you 'know' or believe?
o_O I have a number of issues with that:

Firstly, do you believe that anything that is not illegal is being portrayed as being acceptable within society? By that logic picking your nose, burping, farting and putting your elbows on the table should be illegal.

Secondly, how would incest not being illegal 'lead to untold level of barbarism', is there ANYTHING to suggest a causal link between incest and 'barbarism' (whatever THAT is).

Finally, are you suggesting that the (unverified) increased level of crime and delinquency within society today is a result of incest (which I presume you are suggesting must have also increased in prevalence)?
 

nnmartin

Well-Known Member
no, but the increase in crime and delinquency is due to the 'me' culture - all in the name of supposed freedom and wealth.

Most nations have now become societies obsessed with material gain, doing whatever you want when you want, demanding as high a wage as possible etc.. all this is fueled by the false idea that freedom entitles one to this regardless of long term consequences.

Legalised incest is just one example of this.
 

Tiberius

Well-Known Member
thanks and for sure, I am always happy to come back and give you a good whipping!:)

I suppose there's always a first time.

now, the negative message is obvious.

if the government allows for a mother to sleep with her son then this is a form of legalised perversion. This would let young people believe that this kind of socially irresponsible behaviour is ok and will lead to untold levels of barbarism.

Do you get dizzy going around in circles?

You claim that a mother sleeping with her son is "perverted" and "socially irresponsible", but you don't actually show us WHY it is perverted or socially irresponsible. (I am of course assuming that the son is of age.)

So how about you show us WHY a young man (18 or older) having sex with his mother is perverted, or is socially irresponsible. And also please explain how this man sleeping with his mother will lead to untold levels of barabarism. Exactly what kind of barbarism are we talking about? Theft? Rape? Murder? Cannibalism? Are we going to get people running around yelling, "I'm stealing, raping people/killing people/eating people because some guy a few cities away had sex with his mum!"

Call me crazy, but I just don't see that happening.

this is actually happening today as evidenced by the increased levels of crime and delinquency.

Yeah, I'm sure that all the people who start riots, steal from the houses of little old ladies, rape and murder little girls only do these things because some people have sex with their close family.

there are many factors contributing to this of course, but it is the supposed 'freedom' that allows for it to flourish.

So gracious of you to admit that the ability for people to practice incest is only one cause out of many, but surely then it is at best only a minor cause. Needless to say, you haven't even shown how it is a cause at all.

So please show how if young man A has sex with his mother B, we'll find completely unrelated stranger X committing crimes. And it can be any crime you want, even something as lowly as stealing a Mars Bar.
 

9Westy9

Sceptic, Libertarian, Egalitarian
Premium Member
thanks and for sure, I am always happy to come back and give you a good whipping!:)

now, the negative message is obvious.

if the government allows for a mother to sleep with her son then this is a form of legalised perversion. This would let young people believe that this kind of socially irresponsible behaviour is ok and will lead to untold levels of barbarism.

this is actually happening today as evidenced by the increased levels of crime and delinquency.

there are many factors contributing to this of course, but it is the supposed 'freedom' that allows for it to flourish.

so the reason why the crime rate is so high is because of incest? wow, just wow
 

Zoe Doidge

Basically a Goddess
The arguments against incest we've seen so far are circular at best and flat out fabrications at worst.

Unless someone new wants to put forward an argument to maintain a ban on incest it's really time this thread died.
 

Big_TJ

Active Member
Ok, Man of Faith, I have another question. If a man adopts a child and have been "fatherig" her since she was 1, but now she is 30 and have sex with her "father", should they be both thrown in jail? If so, why? if not, why not?
 

nnmartin

Well-Known Member
yes, that is correct.

It is the biology that is the main issue.

Step-father and child is distasteful but doesn't go against the grain as such.

and , yes, I agree - this thread ought to have been put to bed a long time ago.
 

rageoftyrael

Veritas
Wait. So, why are you against this morally, then? It seems the morality of it doesn't even bother you. You really are just saying "that's icky!". Cause other than the fact that there isn't a biological issue, every single other so-called issue you could bring to mind, still applies in the adoption scenario! This doesn't make sense!
 

nnmartin

Well-Known Member
of course there is a biological issue - what on Earth are you talking about.

it is a natural phenomenon for people to NOT be attracted to their close relatives - all to do with chemistry and the like.

And of course, there are the genetic issues involved in births.
 

nnmartin

Well-Known Member
I
Exactly what kind of barbarism are we talking about? Theft? Rape? Murder? Cannibalism? Are we going to get people running around yelling, "I'm stealing, raping people/killing people/eating people because some guy a few cities away had sex with his mum!"

here you are just being facetious.

Yeah, I'm sure that all the people who start riots, steal from the houses of little old ladies, rape and murder little girls only do these things because some people have sex with their close family.
and here as well.

So please show how if young man A has sex with his mother B, we'll find completely unrelated stranger X committing crimes. And it can be any crime you want, even something as lowly as stealing a Mars Bar.

3 times in fact!
 
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