Should Individual US States Determine Who is a Human Being?

[Wandering Monk]

There is no such thing as a right to abortion. No one is entitled to receive an abortion nor can the state compel a person to have an abortion. But, a person does, generally, have a right to refuse abortion (as a voluntary patient). In fact, a person, generally, has the right to refuse any medical operation or treatment (as a voluntary patient). Moreover, a doctor has the right to refuse to perform an abortion or other medical procedure (if the patient is not in immediate need of care).

States have the power to regulate abortions. In fact, the states have the power to regulate any medical procedure. This power is reserved to them by the 10th Amendment of the Constitution.

This means that a state has the power regulate abortions. A state can also ban medical procedures. This is why people are predicting that once the Supreme Court officially overturns Roe vs Wade, some states will outright ban abortion - because they have the power to do so.

So, what was the legal basis for opposing slavery in US states before the 13th Amendment was ratified?

 

[F1fan]

You didn't really answer the question though: should individual states have a legal right to permit abortion?

They do have the legal right to permit abortion. Currently they don't have a right to ban abortion, but many red states have done things to make abortion unlikely in their states, namely with restrictions on clinic standards and just their own laws that limit the term for an abortion.

If Roe is overturned there are 23 states where abortion will be banned, and more to come. Some republicans in ban states are suggesting laws that if one of their citizens travels to a permit state and gets an abortion they can be prosecuted as if they got the procedure in their own state. So that might be a way for republicans to take total control over their female citizens over reproduction rights. These citizens would have to legally change their home address to a permit state to avoid possible prosecution. I suspect republicans will find a way to target these citizens anyway.

 

[F1fan]

You should add one more choice to your poll.

Should States have the right to determine abortion policy

They do already, and exercise this right.

 

[Father Heathen]

I don't listen to authoritarian garbage tripe.

You've been eagerly devouring it for a while because they wrapped it in an American flag.

 

[Twilight Hue]

You've been eagerly devouring it for a while because they wrapped it in an American flag.

No.

Not when it comes from a left wing party that leads with states that have the least economic and personal freedoms in the entire nation.

I know what we are looking at here.

 

[danieldemol]

You're being simplistic. Nobody wants the fœtus. The fœtus is not viable, it's only a potential. Removing it would kill it.
The anti abortionists want the potential to be realized, which means leaving it in place.

Perhaps it could be transplanted to the womb of a pro-life mother?

In my opinion.

 

[Valjean]

No.

Not when it comes from a left wing party that leads with states that have the least economic and personal freedoms in the entire nation.

I know what we are looking at here.

There is no "left wing party." You've been fed a load of ahistorical tripe.
The Democratic party today is the most conservative, farthest right it has been in more than a century. It's far to the right of the Republican party seventy years ago, even forty years ago. Imagine what a nest of rabid commies both parties must have been back in Eisenhower's day (oddly enough, during a red scare).

The economic freedom you're talking about is unregulated free trade, which has always led to a "business cycle" of economic booms and busts, as well as monopolization, driving competitors, especially small business, into bankruptcy. This economic freedom benefits only large corporations.

Personal freedom? The left has always championed the expansion of personal freedom -- with the conservative Right fighting them at every turn.

 

[Twilight Hue]

There is no "left wing party." You've been fed a load of ahistorical tripe.
The Democratic party today is the most conservative, farthest right it has been in more than a century. It's far to the right of the Republican party seventy years ago, even forty years ago. Imagine what a nest of rabid commies both parties must have been back in Eisnhower's day (oddlyenough, during a red scare).

I won't ever think that in light of the reality that involves the states of New York and California.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Statism for human rights is stupid. If you find yourself agreeing with those Republicans that think things like gay marriage, interracial cohabitation, women's rights, should be a state decision then I will think 100% less of them as a person, and probably steer far clear of them in my life.

Yup. When a Republican harps on about "state's rights," it can just be assumed they are wanting to legislate their hatred and bigotry and deny liberty and freedom to marginalized groups.

 

[Wandering Monk]

According to the poll so far, 64% think states should have the legal right to permit abortion, albeit, about just under half of those think there should be some restrictions.

 

[Sand Dancer]

that is exactly what the self-righteous want you to believe. good fences make good neighbors. they're trying to cross a line that they themselves have agreed to follow. a fetus is not human. belief is not an excuse for knowing where one person's autonomy begins and another's ends

It's human, just not a legal person until birth.

 

[Revoltingest]

Yup. When a Republican harps on about "state's rights," it can just be assumed they are wanting to legislate their hatred and bigotry and deny liberty and freedom to marginalized groups.

And when a Democrat decries "state's rights",
it's cuz they want a powerful central government
to micro-manage our lives, & envision that they
will be the ones dictating things to the masses.
To Heck with the Constitution, & all that separation
of powers stuff, eh.

This is fun!

 

[metis]

Not when it comes from a left wing party that leads with states that have the least economic and personal freedoms in the entire nation.

That's bizarre since neo-fascism like Trump was and is coming from is hardly extending freedom to others.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

And when a Democrat decries "state's rights",
it's cuz they want a powerful central government
to micro-manage our lives, & envision that they
will be the ones dictating things to the masses.
To Heck with the Constitution, & all that separation
of powers stuff, eh.

This is fun!

Except Republicans actually try to impede into the private lives if citizens, even telling them what medical procedures people can get, all because "god said so."

 

[Revoltingest]

Except Republicans actually try to impede into the private lives if citizens, even telling them what medical procedures people can get, all because "god said so."

No argument here.
But you can't accuse Pubs of mis-using "states' rights",
without addressing Dems doing the same thing. They
too love this independence of states when it suited
them too, eg, gay marriage, publicly financed health
care, legalized weed.

 

[Subduction Zone]

No.

Not when it comes from a left wing party that leads with states that have the least economic and personal freedoms in the entire nation.

I know what we are looking at here.

And yet they tend to be the richer states and contribute more than their share to the federal coffers while the red states contribute less. Funny how that works.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

too love this independence of states when it suited
them too, eg, gay marriage, publicly financed health
care, legalized weed.

Those expanded liberty. And in my experience, albeit anacdotal, Conservatives go on about it more. Kind of like their cry if individual liberty when it came to masks.

 

[Twilight Hue]

And yet they tend to be the richer states and contribute more than their share to the federal coffers while the red states contribute less. Funny how that works.

And none of it actually benefitting middle and lower class.

Funny how that works.

 

[Watchmen]

Engendered by the Roe debate. If an unborn child is a human being at any stage in a pregnancy, should individual states have a legal right to permit abortion?

Should whether the unborn child is “human” even be a consideration? US measures the abortion issue by viability, and is only one of two countries to do so.

 

[Revoltingest]

Those expanded liberty. And in my experience, albeit anacdotal, Conservatives go on about it more. Kind of like their cry if individual liberty when it came to masks.

This doesn't address the point, ie....
Dems deride Pubs for it, but Dems also favor
"states rights" when it suits them. States do
have rights under the Constitution, so libs
shouldn't make them sound so evil.