kai
ragamuffin
ah but a lot of people would, and do, go for the cheaper option , a packet of cigarettes can be half price from the "bad guys" and i mean now today.
-
Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.
Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:- Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
- Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
- Access to private conversations with other members.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!
Should Marijuana Be Legal
- Thread starter Subhood
- Start date
ah but a lot of people would, and do, go for the cheaper option , a packet of cigarettes can be half price from the "bad guys" and i mean now today.
J Bryson
Well-Known Member
That has more to do with taxes artificially increasing the cost. In a case like that, it makes more sense to get the taxes under some sort of control so as to make the black market less tempting. However, smokers have been an easy target for years now, as they're one minority that no one minds soaking for extra money.
kai
ragamuffin
yes our government loves tax, but "the bad guys " they make money from everything from DVDs to designer clothes, so like i said earlier the criminal part of the argumant doesnt wash with me.
and smokers have handled rising taxation for years mainly because their addicted i suppose.
and alcohol is heavily taxed, and fuel, which is why there is also a black market in alcohol and fuel.
I guess what i am trying to say is ,in order for the criminal element to not bother with cannabis it would have to be so cheap that it wasnt worth the while.
Last edited:
J Bryson
Well-Known Member
In those cases, you're usually talking about knockoffs and counterfeit merchandise, which is an entirely different subject. Also, I suspect that if you combined the income derived from these various underground enterprises, they would not add up to a fraction of the illegal drug trade.
kai
ragamuffin
the cigarette ,alcohol and fuel, are tax free buying. mostly from smuggling.I dont think cannabis dealers would even have to change strategy. Just carry on as normal.Here tobacco is gradually being fased out one way or another and i cant really see anything that is smoked being fased in.
Thief
Rogue Theologian
If cannabis is ever made legal....
People will start growing it in every discreet little patch of ground they can find.
Then the importers will lose they cut.
Then money spent to prohibit, will be withdrawn from law enforcement.
The need to house so many 'offenders' will also be withdrawn.
The drug war fuels a lot monetary exchange.
Smokers of tobacco go through a pack of cigarettes each day.
At five bucks a pack....times 400,000.
Given the 'choice', that won't happen any more.
'Joint' smokers make do on three joints a day, more or less.
If people grow their own....very little money will change hands.
Do the math.
400,000 people die each year for lung problems attributed to tobacco.
If they 'switch over' that number will drop.
The typical tobacco smoker will do one last operation to save his life.
$20,000 per cut.
The typical life span after the cut...6months.
The typical funeral (cheap) $9,000.
Do the multiplication and you will see how important to the American economy, tobacco smoking really is.
Don't forget all of those social security checks per month...if 400,000 people stop dying so fast.
People will start growing it in every discreet little patch of ground they can find.
Then the importers will lose they cut.
Then money spent to prohibit, will be withdrawn from law enforcement.
The need to house so many 'offenders' will also be withdrawn.
The drug war fuels a lot monetary exchange.
Smokers of tobacco go through a pack of cigarettes each day.
At five bucks a pack....times 400,000.
Given the 'choice', that won't happen any more.
'Joint' smokers make do on three joints a day, more or less.
If people grow their own....very little money will change hands.
Do the math.
400,000 people die each year for lung problems attributed to tobacco.
If they 'switch over' that number will drop.
The typical tobacco smoker will do one last operation to save his life.
$20,000 per cut.
The typical life span after the cut...6months.
The typical funeral (cheap) $9,000.
Do the multiplication and you will see how important to the American economy, tobacco smoking really is.
Don't forget all of those social security checks per month...if 400,000 people stop dying so fast.
Zephyr
Moved on
Even if people would still sell illegal tax-free cannabis, they wouldn't be making anything near the profit they are now. Its illegality is currently inflating the price to a huge degree. If legalized, the costs would plummet, even after taxes. If somebody were to sell it tax-free, they still wouldn't make nearly as much as they do now.
dawny0826
Mother Heathen
Amen to that.
Perfect Circle
Just Browsing
gnomon
Well-Known Member
As long as the laws enacted allowed for much freedom for adults to use then it would be to cheap for the black market. It would be cheaper than alcohol.
The plant grows in a wide variety of climates and ground conditions, can be grown hydroponically and harvested multiple times per year.
Cannabis is actually one of the fastest growing biomasses in the world. Industrial hemp would probably be a boon to our economy and it wouldn't be that difficult to find land and give it over to growing legal, THC controlled marijuana. The difference between grades would probably not be enough of a deal for people to go black market for higher potency when the regular stuff would be so cheap and get people to the same point anyway.
Zephyr
Moved on
Exactly. I can brew my own mead (and I do), but it takes a while when I could just walk to the gas station and pick up a 6pack of beer for cheaper.
If weed were legalized, there would still be people who grow their own (like brewers that prefer their own beer over store-bought brands), but lots of people will just go the convenient route and walk down the street.
Another plus for legalizing cannabis is that we could save a TON of money releasing non-violent offenders.
Subhood
aintnopartylikeanopenbar
If the government legalized marijuana then street level dealers or "the bad guys" would have no way to compete with the super strains the government would be able to cultivate.
Yes many people would grow there own right in there back yard or hydroponically indoors, but the amount of time and money it would take to compete with a superior product from the government would not be worth it to most.
In turn this would help bring much needed dollars into the economy rather than into the hands of "the bad guys".
Even if people grew there own rather than buy gov. marijuana many stores that supply the proper materials for growing your own marijuana would also keep money out of the hands of "bad guys"
Yes many people would grow there own right in there back yard or hydroponically indoors, but the amount of time and money it would take to compete with a superior product from the government would not be worth it to most.
In turn this would help bring much needed dollars into the economy rather than into the hands of "the bad guys".
Even if people grew there own rather than buy gov. marijuana many stores that supply the proper materials for growing your own marijuana would also keep money out of the hands of "bad guys"
Last edited:
rojse
RF Addict
I would like to correct you on this. If I purchased a still for about eighty dollars, I can do about fifteen bottles of spirits for two hundred dollars in two weeks. One bottle of spirits, in comparison, is worth about thirty-five to forty dollars.
Unfortunately, I don't drink, so all of this is an intellectual discussion for me.
kai
ragamuffin
that all depends on how much the tax is doesnt it, like i said here you can buy illegal cigarettes for around half price
kai
ragamuffin
like i keep saying it all depends on how much the government takes as a cut. i can get a pack of ciggaretes at the local gas station for around £5 or get ilegal ones for around £2.50 all made by the same large company .
Last edited:
kai
ragamuffin
Ok i think you are saying the government should nationalise it. again it depends on how much the government charge for it doesn't it?
look folks , its a very common fact that people want a bargain , they will buy from " a guy down the pub" if its cheaper and most of the time its cheaper because the government taxes the hell out of anything that's popular. lets take a packet of cigarettes all legal here, they are around £5. illegal packets are around half that. the same with alcohol its a lot cheaper to buy from the "bad guy" because its tax free. if the government produces cannabis and sells it for a really low price then bingo the "bad guys " have no margin in it and will not bother. otherwise nothing will change and the criminal argument doesn't stand.
Thief
Rogue Theologian
So far the discussion leans toward...yes...it should be legal.
But until the monetary issues are resolved it won't happen.
And no government will pass any law that eliminates or reduces revenue.
It will be up to the people....to resist taxation and prohibition.
This will require the people to take action....illegal action.
Plant the seeds....everywhere.
Create a situation wherein eradication becomes impossible.
The shear abundance would need to be so great ...no prohibition could be performed.
The next problem to legalization....drug testing.
At this point there are only two options.
Make drug testing illegal...or become financially independent of the system.
And not by selling drugs.
But until the monetary issues are resolved it won't happen.
And no government will pass any law that eliminates or reduces revenue.
It will be up to the people....to resist taxation and prohibition.
This will require the people to take action....illegal action.
Plant the seeds....everywhere.
Create a situation wherein eradication becomes impossible.
The shear abundance would need to be so great ...no prohibition could be performed.
The next problem to legalization....drug testing.
At this point there are only two options.
Make drug testing illegal...or become financially independent of the system.
And not by selling drugs.
Perfect Circle
Just Browsing
Yes, but we in the US don't have much to compare that to. There really isn't a huge cigarette smuggling industry in the US at the moment, that's more of a European problem. Either way, even if the illegal trade of Marijuana did continue against all odds, it would dent the pocket books of the cartels significantly.
Zephyr
Moved on
Disclaimer: Let's say all the numbers here are theoretical. They are pretty crucial to the argument here, but if a mod wants me to edit them out, I suppose I can do that.
My uncle made some pretty good money smuggling smokes here from Idaho, but it's nothing compared to how much he could have made off illegal cannabis. For reference purposes, cannabis around here sells for around 10 bucks a gram (and from what the internet has told me, this seems pretty standard). If it were legalized, the price would plummet. Even if people still made money smuggling them tax free (and I have no doubt this would happen), it would still be an enormous drop in profit.
Back when California was flirting with legalization with the 50 dollar tax, I heard estimates that after taxes it'd come out to 60 bucks an ounce, after taxes. Currently illegal, that could run about 200+ dollars. Even if people skipped out on the tax and were selling it for even 59 bucks an ounce (or whichever price reduction it would take to convince people to risk breaking the law), it would still be a huge dent in the criminal's pocketbook.
Legalizing won't stop smuggling, but it will sure as hell make the illegal trade of cannabis far less profitable. This isn't even getting into the huge amounts of money we could be saving by not keeping non-violent drug offenders in our prisons. We could redirect our efforts away from this harmless crime and focus on actual dangers to society. Every cop that's out arresting your run-of-the-mill stoner could be hunting down violent and dangerous criminals. It makes absolutely no sense to keep cannabis illegal.
kai
ragamuffin
ok i get that , every man and his dog here sells tobacco, you can get in almost every pub and on every estate there's someone who sells it. these people are now criminals because the government is gradually outlawing tobacco and taxing it to the hilt as a kind of deterrent.
I don't really believe we have "cartels" here when it comes to cannabis, lots and i mean lots of people grow skunk and sell it. its a lot cheaper than buying it and selling it on, and once you have initially set up, its a money tree. here in the UK at least i cant even conceive cannabis becoming legal when its on the cards that smoking even outside in public is going to become illegal