Should Religious leaders be involved in any form of public school employment

[logician]

You can't keep religious people from being teachers in public schools, but you can keep religion from being taught in public schools.

 

[Marathon runner]

You can't keep religious people from being teachers in public schools, but you can keep religion from being taught in public schools.

"It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society
lol ,well there you have it what more could be said ? ...although I agree you can't keep people from being teachers in public schools it really is a sick menality and in my opinion I find most get so caught up in a parent defensive mindset that they lose their scrupples to the point of enraging some parents like myself . I truly had to force myself from entering that school due to my own fear of using my 262lb frame from throwing around human beings , and infact legally removed my kids from its sickness during a second incident that became an investigation because of the failure for authority to step in where necessary and my son suffered a head injury from the same child . NO HISSY FIT HERE JUST A SERIOUS MATTER OF REAL CHRISTIANS AND BELIEVERS IN GOD BACKING IRRESPONSIBILITY OVER A CHILDS WELL BEING FOR THE SAKE OF ADULT TO ADULT LONG TERM FREINDSHIP . NONE OF YOU KID YOURSELVES EVERY AND I MEAN EVER CONGREGATION OF RELIGION HAS THEM . The fact that these two people are religious leaders makes the matter much much worse .I feel sorry for any human being who would allow children to be abused in my presence it would be lights out very very quickly . I don't mean death I mean lights out ... perhaps Spare the rod spoil the coward adult .

 

[Draka]

So every "religious leader" or ordained clergy person is abusive and shouldn't work in a school? I really don't get your argument at all.

 

[Storm]

So every "religious leader" or ordained clergy person is abusive and shouldn't work in a school? I really don't get your argument at all.

That's because he doesn't have one.

 

[Marathon runner]

So every "religious leader" or ordained clergy person is abusive and shouldn't work in a school? I really don't get your argument at all.

correct

 

[ChristineES]

correct

I agree with Draka and Storm, you don't really have an argument. I feel myself going around in circles, and we are all saying the same thing- To quote a song -"One bad apple don't spoil the whole bunch".

 

[Storm]

So every "religious leader" or ordained clergy person is abusive and shouldn't work in a school? I really don't get your argument at all.

correct

So, your entire "argument" is a stereotype. Hardly convincing.

 

[Kathryn]

PERHAPS EVERYTHING WE SAY IS A REFLECTION ON OURSELVES NOT ALWAYS BUT SOMETIMES .

Uhhh, yes. Speak on.

 

[Draka]

So every "religious leader" or ordained clergy person is abusive and shouldn't work in a school? I really don't get your argument at all.

correct

Wow. How blatantly offensive. You take the actions of one or two people and stereotype everyone else in the world who happens to have one thing in common with them? I didn't have any idea my ordination certificate automatically made me an abusive person that shouldn't teach kids. Unbelievable. I suppose you think all blacks are criminals, all Latinos are illegal immigrants, all Arabs are terrorists, and all whites are KKK members too. How lovely for you. You have problems that extend far beyond a teacher you have a disagreement about. You know that?

 

[logician]

"It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society
lol ,well there you have it what more could be said ? ...although I agree you can't keep people from being teachers in public schools it really is a sick menality and in my opinion I find most get so caught up in a parent defensive mindset that they lose their scrupples to the point of enraging some parents like myself . I truly had to force myself from entering that school due to my own fear of using my 262lb frame from throwing around human beings , and infact legally removed my kids from its sickness during a second incident that became an investigation because of the failure for authority to step in where necessary and my son suffered a head injury from the same child . NO HISSY FIT HERE JUST A SERIOUS MATTER OF REAL CHRISTIANS AND BELIEVERS IN GOD BACKING IRRESPONSIBILITY OVER A CHILDS WELL BEING FOR THE SAKE OF ADULT TO ADULT LONG TERM FREINDSHIP . NONE OF YOU KID YOURSELVES EVERY AND I MEAN EVER CONGREGATION OF RELIGION HAS THEM . The fact that these two people are religious leaders makes the matter much much worse .I feel sorry for any human being who would allow children to be abused in my presence it would be lights out very very quickly . I don't mean death I mean lights out ... perhaps Spare the rod spoil the coward adult .

YOu miss my drift, I'm not talking about ministers, most teachers practice some religion, the point is, they shouldn't be allowed to push their own religion in a public school.

 

[Marathon runner]

Wow. How blatantly offensive. You take the actions of one or two people and stereotype everyone else in the world who happens to have one thing in common with them? I didn't have any idea my ordination certificate automatically made me an abusive person that shouldn't teach kids. Unbelievable. I suppose you think all blacks are criminals, all Latinos are illegal immigrants, all Arabs are terrorists, and all whites are KKK members too. How lovely for you. You have problems that extend far beyond a teacher you have a disagreement about. You know that?

I'm glad you understand your own bias but please don't push your own prejudices on me, none of those examples crossed my mind .

 

[Storm]

I'm glad you understand your own bias but please don't push your own prejudices on me, none of those examples crossed my mind .

Way to miss the point, dude.

 

[Draka]

I'm glad you understand your own bias but please don't push your own prejudices on me, none of those examples crossed my mind .

What "bias"? What "prejudices"?

And you simply don't get it do you? storm is right...you completely missed the point.

 

[S-word]

People have a right to their personal beliefs, freedom of religion doesn't mean freedom from religion.

Schools are for the education of our children, they are not institutions where fanatical atheists and religious minded madmen can twist and mold the minds of our children to their persuasion. The best teachers are those Atheists, agnostics, christians, or those of any other religious persuasion, who leave their beliefs at home. For all teachers have their own personal beliefs.

 

[Draka]

For all teachers have their own personal beliefs.

This is what I don't think Marathon runner "gets". Everyone has their own beliefs and ideals. Everyone. Just because someone may be clergy or not does not mean that they suddenly have no ability to decide what is and is not appropriate to teach. An atheist has just as much the ability to to teach children there is no god as a run of the mill Christian does to teach kids they will burn in hell if they misbehave. It has nothing to do with if they are ordained or not. It has to do with their internal filter. Some people just don't have one. Those are the ones to worry about. Not simply the ones that have an ordination certificate.

 

[AxisMundi]

I see some very serious problems with our Pastor being an employee in the local school and to make matters worse one of the elders or for better and more precise words , a person with alot of clout both in our church and the school , decided to favor the school over whats right and honest (teacher bullying) well since then I see them both as bigots hiding behind a very powerful union and the all mighty dollar , and more or less cowards with no cooth morals or principals other than what benefits them (understandable , afterall we all have to eat ) . Obviously as a parent neither no longer have much respect from me , infact they are at least as pathetic as I may be to some people , and to think I actually looked at them a bit like heros because of how considerate they were . Should any religious leaders be involved in public schools because obviously there seems to be a conflict of interest here and bullying is only one senario of what potential problems can occur with superiors both in our religious congregations and schools or Perhaps I don't see the beneficial side to this and my situation is just an uncommon occurance and circumstancial . Please share .

IMHO, Absolutely not.

If they wish to teach, there are plenty of Parochial Schools out there.

There is only one reason I can see for a clergyman to teach in a Public School, and that is indoctrination.

 

[AxisMundi]

This is what I don't think Marathon runner "gets". Everyone has their own beliefs and ideals. Everyone. Just because someone may be clergy or not does not mean that they suddenly have no ability to decide what is and is not appropriate to teach. An atheist has just as much the ability to to teach children there is no god as a run of the mill Christian does to teach kids they will burn in hell if they misbehave. It has nothing to do with if they are ordained or not. It has to do with their internal filter. Some people just don't have one. Those are the ones to worry about. Not simply the ones that have an ordination certificate.

I threatened our local school system with legal action fi they did not remove one of my son's teachers (this was years ago, all three have graduated). The women simply would not stop breaking school guidelines. She kept a bible openly and obviously on her desk (which would suddenly disappear during Parent/Teacher conference days), would pray at the begining of classes in front of the class, etc.

So yeah, one doesn't have to be a clergyman to break the law.

However, clergy are one step up from the average religious layman. Clergy have taken the time to go through the steps neccessary to become clergy, be it seminary or other classes. Clergy are also (suppsoed to be) that much more devout as well.

It is the duty of Christian clergy to not only "lead the flock" but to increase the size of that flock as well.

 

[Storm]

I threatened our local school system with legal action fi they did not remove one of my son's teachers (this was years ago, all three have graduated). The women simply would not stop breaking school guidelines. She kept a bible openly and obviously on her desk (which would suddenly disappear during Parent/Teacher conference days), would pray at the begining of classes in front of the class, etc.

Now see, THAT was justified. ETA: Your objection, not her behavior.

So yeah, one doesn't have to be a clergyman to break the law.

No more than one must be a layperson to obey it.

However, clergy are one step up from the average religious layman. Clergy have taken the time to go through the steps neccessary to become clergy, be it seminary or other classes. Clergy are also (suppsoed to be) that much more devout as well.

It is the duty of Christian clergy to not only "lead the flock" but to increase the size of that flock as well.

So what? None of that means they're psychologically incapable of obeying the law.

 

[Wannabe Yogi]

Correct. People should be free to practice and believe what they want in regards to religion.

Government institutions should be secular, and in so doing allows each and every person to implement the First Amendment.

To answer the OP, I don't see a problem with involving religious leaders into being employed in public schools, so long as they check their religion-based decision-making for the students at the door.

Government being secular is a great gift to both the religious and non-religious alike. It just keeps that much less corruption out of both the pulpit and the state house. I really do not understand the conservative christians desire to have religion being taught in schools. The all they do is complain about how teacher unions mess up standard subjects like math and reading. Can't they just imagine what they would do to religion. I can just see it now... May be I should be a teacher.... What a great time I would have Hinduizing Christianity in front of a bunch of 6th graders, the fundamentalists would just love it.

 

[AxisMundi]

Now see, THAT was justified. ETA: Your objection, not her behavior.

No more than one must be a layperson to obey it.

So what? None of that means they're psychologically incapable of obeying the law.

1. That's the short list.
2. Agreed, however...
3. Clergy have much more motivation to break laws and indoctrinate kids in public schools.

Yes, I am generalizing, to a point. I've worked with Clergy in the past for community endeavors who would never think to overstep the law and try and indoctrinate children in a public school. One is the wife of a retired Rear Admiral who spent most of her life living overseas being exposed to different cultures and religions.

However, those clergy are in the minority I have found.

When a person devotes themselves to their god and enters the preisthood, they give up certain things. Clergy may be required to give up sex, they voluntarilly give up personal time to care for their parishioners and fully expect to be called out at all hours, and may have to give up even more.

So the idea of banning clergy from public school is hardly even worth noting. If they feel compelled, or guided, to teach, there is always Parochial Schools.