Should Religious leaders be involved in any form of public school employment

[Storm]

It was never about me any way

I provide my opinion that's all.

Are you going to address my points, or is this your version of admitting you're wrong?

 

[IndieVisible]

Are you going to address my points, or is this your version of admitting you're wrong?

I already addressed them but will be happy to repeat them in case you missed them or if I was not clear enough. So let me put it in a different light for you.

I think being ordained, God's Laws will always trump man's laws.
I think it's an invitation to disaster.

How can I be wrong providing my opinion? I think, you think, we make opinions.

 

[Storm]

I already addressed them but will be happy to repeat them in case you missed them or if I was not clear enough. So let me put it in a different light for you.

I think being ordained, God's Laws will always trump man's laws.

Got any evidence, or just bias?

How can I be wrong providing my opinion? I think, you think, we make opinions.

Racism is an opinion. Is it wrong?

 

[IndieVisible]

Got any evidence, or just bias?

Do you?

Racism is an opinion. Is it wrong?

What is right and wrong?

 

[Storm]

Do you?

You're the one making the claim. It's up to you to support it.

What is right and wrong?

I'll take that as "no, I don't think racism is wrong." How shocking.

 

[IndieVisible]

You're the one making the claim. It's up to you to support it.


I'll take that as "no, I don't think racism is wrong." How shocking.

lol. We are talking about opinions here.

You have a higher opinion of ordained clergies to follow man's laws over God's laws then I do. Nether of us have any evidence. Yet your opinion is some how more valuable then mine? How so?

And nice try to divert the discussion to another topic.

 

[Storm]

You have a higher opinion of ordained clergies to follow man's laws over God's laws then I do. Nether of us have any evidence. Yet your opinion is some how more valuable then mine? How so?

You're claiming that clergy will automatically break the law. You can't support that assertion with anything. Therefore your opinion is mere prejudice, just like racism.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

You have a higher opinion of ordained clergies to follow man's laws over God's laws then I do. Nether of us have any evidence. Yet your opinion is some how more valuable then mine? How so?

Here's why her opinion should be accepted over yours:

- yours depends on a positive claim (that clergy are incapable of behaving properly as teachers) which you have not supported at all so far, and which, IMO, there's no apparent rational reason to accept as true.

- your position implies an extremely severe measure: completely barring an entire class of people from an entire category of job. Something this severe needs a very compelling justification before it can be considered legitimate.

 

[IndieVisible]

You're claiming that clergy will automatically break the law. You can't support that assertion with anything. Therefore your opinion is mere prejudice, just like racism.

Not so. Ask any clergy which law is more important, God's Laws or man's laws? The majority will tell you God's Laws!

Do you honestly believe most would be able to refrain from their moral obligation?

My opinion is not prejudiced at all but use their own claims and teachings! It's very reasonable.

Do you throw around the prejudice racist card at every one you disagree with?

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Not so. Ask any clergy which law is more important, God's Laws or man's laws? The majority will tell you God's Laws!

The majority? Not all? Your position before was based on the premise that every member of the clergy would inevitably act inappropriately, wasn't it?

As a bonus question, I suggest you ask them what they think "God's Laws" tell them to do as a teacher.

Do you honestly believe most would be able to refrain from their moral obligation?

Exactly what do you think their "moral obligation" is? There are many religions that explicitly prohibit proselytizing. Even in the ones that do, they don't necessarily require active evangelism in every situation.

My opinion is not prejudiced at all but use their own claims and teachings! It's very reasonable.

Earlier in this thread, Draka pointed out that she's a Pagan and an ordained minister. Exactly which one of her claims or teachings have you used to conclude that she's unfit to teach children?

 

[IndieVisible]

Your a trip dude, but then as I would expect a atheist that hangs in a religious forum to be lol.

I provided my opinions and my reasons for them. If you don't like them, tough..

 

[Draka]

way to go with the smoke screens , you just became a (deleting word myself so my post isn't edited for your inability to not call people names) obviously you are saying you can be morally supportive and responsible after proving yourself wrong inotherwards this is about the ordained who did marry his students infact he was the groom for his harem, the veteranian who cooked the five star meals with the result of food poisoning , the doctor who did give his patients soup and probably spiked it with lysol , and of course and especially the math teacher who took the students out flying and when the plane stalled ejected and let the plane hit the ground just as any teacher or religious leader would do to save their own butt . My original post and explanations were all after the fact and has/had nothing to do with smoke screens and what ifs . It's a given fact that being a teacher you are going to screw up fail children and their parents and never admitt to wrong doing unless forced to by being cornered or caught in the act and then defended by a powerful civil union WHY WOULD YOU EXPOSE YOURSELF TO THIS AS A RELIGIOUS LEADER IF YOU HAVE ANY RELIGIOUS RIGHTEOUSNESS FLOWING THROUGH YOUR VEINS .WHY WOULD YOU BE ALLOWED TO. I guess its okay if you are a christian because you are a screwed up minister and have someone who died for your sins so all your sins are okayed .God bless you for being chosen because you verbally and physically say so .Todays religious leaders are all losing their defense and righteosness as religious leaders when they are teachers in public schools, its alot like the boy who cried wolf .

Wow! That was one impressive rant about nothing! I'm awestruck. Really. Nice job going haywire.

 

[Draka]

I already addressed them but will be happy to repeat them in case you missed them or if I was not clear enough. So let me put it in a different light for you.

I think being ordained, God's Laws will always trump man's laws.
I think it's an invitation to disaster.

How can I be wrong providing my opinion? I think, you think, we make opinions.

You can think whatever you like. You're wrong, but you're more than welcome to be wrong, I guess.

I'm ordained. You wouldn't have any idea if I didn't tell you. I'm Wiccan. No one can tell that when they personally meet me unless I happen to be wearing my pentacle outside my shirt. there is no other way to know. I don't go around proselytizing to anyone. As for your "God's Law" bunkola...Whose god? Because it happens to be quite a dear part of my religion to NOT proselytize. I don't believe in telling others how to believe. Most Pagans don't. Now...please explain WHY someone who has been tutoring students from grade school all the way to college should not be able to teach SIMPLY because they have a peice of paper that says they can perform legal marriages? Someone who you couldn't even tell what religion they are, let alone that they have a religion? Why punish them because of the possible, supposed actions of someone else entirely?

 

[IndieVisible]

You can think whatever you like. You're wrong, but you're more than welcome to be wrong, I guess.

I'm ordained. You wouldn't have any idea if I didn't tell you. I'm Wiccan. No one can tell that when they personally meet me unless I happen to be wearing my pentacle outside my shirt. there is no other way to know. I don't go around proselytizing to anyone. As for your "God's Law" bunkola...Whose god? Because it happens to be quite a dear part of my religion to NOT proselytize. I don't believe in telling others how to believe. Most Pagans don't. Now...please explain WHY someone who has been tutoring students from grade school all the way to college should not be able to teach SIMPLY because they have a peice of paper that says they can perform legal marriages? Someone who you couldn't even tell what religion they are, let alone that they have a religion? Why punish them because of the possible, supposed actions of someone else entirely?

I don't care if your wiccan, christian, muslim, or believe in the tooth fairy, I don't want any ordained religious people teaching in public schools. That goes for Satanists and cults and whatever. Our schools should be IMHO secular and free from any conflicts of interest. That's my opinion, right or wrong. Thanks for sharing

 

[Draka]

Merely giving it the attention it deserves.

In other words, you have no argument to all my points and want to act like I had none so you can appear to blow it off as "unworthy". Nice debate tactic. BTW...no one's buying it.

 

[Draka]

I don't care if your wiccan, christian, muslim, or believe in the tooth fairy, I don't want any ordained religious people teaching in public schools. That goes for Satanists and cults and whatever. Our schools should be IMHO secular and free from any conflicts of interest. That's my opinion, right or wrong. Thanks for sharing

But here's the thing....who's saying there ARE going to be conflicts of interest??? No one can prove that being clergy of any religion causes a conflict of interest in teaching 5th graders English. No one. No one has said anything that hasn't entirely run on biased opinions. No facts. No gaurantees. Nothing. Nothing gaurantees that a clergy person would preach in a classroom. Nothing gaurantees that a non-clergy person WON'T preach in a classroom. Should we ban all people with any religious affiliation at all from teaching? But then, that leaves us with just atheists to teach. And what gaurantees that some won't do their own proselytizing and go about telling kids there is no such things as any god at all?

There are no gaurantees. There is no proof of any "conflict of interest". You cannot punish the many for the assumed possible acts of a few. Why do some just not get that?

 

[IndieVisible]

But here's the thing....who's saying there ARE going to be conflicts of interest??? No one can prove that being clergy of any religion causes a conflict of interest in teaching 5th graders English. No one. No one has said anything that hasn't entirely run on biased opinions. No facts. No gaurantees. Nothing. Nothing gaurantees that a clergy person would preach in a classroom. Nothing gaurantees that a non-clergy person WON'T preach in a classroom. Should we ban all people with any religious affiliation at all from teaching? But then, that leaves us with just atheists to teach. And what gaurantees that some won't do their own proselytizing and go about telling kids there is no such things as any god at all?

There are no gaurantees. There is no proof of any "conflict of interest". You cannot punish the many for the assumed possible acts of a few. Why do some just not get that?

I'm saying there would be. Any one who says there won't be, contact me, I have some really good land for sale

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

I'm saying there would be. Any one who says there won't be, contact me, I have some really good land for sale

Again: if you're right, then there's no good reason to ban the people. Just ban the behaviour and the people will ban themselves.

 

[Draka]

I'm saying there would be. Any one who says there won't be, contact me, I have some really good land for sale

I have been tutoring since I was 19. I'm 33 now. NOT ONCE has the subject of religion EVER come up in all these years. Just because you say something would happen, based on your obviously limited knowledge, doesn't mean it will happen.

 

[linwood]

I don't think a blanket prohibition would be wise, but they should definitely be scrutinized.

Ditto.

We`ve had some serious troubles with employees of the Catholic diocese influencing our school board in very underhanded ways here.

Just keep an eye on them.