Should religious organizations pay taxes?

[Kilgore Trout]

It should not be legal, but it is. Everyone should have the same say regardless of their income, as long as they have a income. That is the way it is supposed to work, but in reality it is not.

Well, what happens in reality that that isn't the case?

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Ahh I see you was contracted by the government to build for them. You actually was not working behind the scenes with a democratically elected official, or your opinion would be different.

Now I'm a contractor. Previously, I worked directly for government. I didn't work much with mayors, but I've had many dealings with municipal councillors.

Mayors/Governors are the most corrupt officials as proven with through history. There is not enough room on these forums to list every corrupt Mayor/Governor that has been caught doing taking buyouts, swaying zoning laws for special interest etc etc etc the list goes on.

That may be the case in some places. Here, it's a matter of law that (unless they get a variance, which has its own whole special procedure) a municipality's zoning laws have to be set in accordance with the municipal official plan, and municipal official plans have to be approved by the provincial government at regular intervals. Also, decisions of municipal councils can (and often are) appealed to the Ontario Municipal Board, a quasi-judicial body that has the power to overturn these decisions. There's not a whole lot of wiggle room for a municipal official to bend the rules for his or her friends or contributors.

But all that aside, let's say you're right and politicans are corrupt and will bend over backwards for people who pay them money. Which do you think would be the better arrangement?

- churches pay taxes like everyone else, following a process that's generally transparent and equitable and ends up with the money in the government agency's general revenue.

- churches don't pay taxes, and instead exert their influence with their disposable cash. They can (perhaps through intermediaries) funnel contributions to specific politicians with little in the way of transparency or accountability, and the politician gets the money directly.

You might consider a church a separate entity, but where does the church get its money? From donations of its congregation.

That's one source, and a major one. Depending on the congregation, they also get money from other sources:

- interest on investments
- facility rentals
- side businesses (schools, daycare centres, merchandise, etc.)

There are probably others that aren't immediately coming to my mind. Are you saying that none of this should be taxed?

So yes if you tax the church you are taxing the congregation indirectly.

But that would be just once. Right now, money given to churches isn't even taxed a first time: when you give money to a church, you get a credit back on your taxes. Effectively, the money that the church receives was not taxed by the government as income to you.

Also, when you look at something like property taxes, double-taxing is entirely appropriate. Churches generate traffic that takes up road capacity. Churches get the benefit of fire department response. Rain that falls on churches ends up in the storm sewers that have to be designed, installed and maintained at considerable expense. Churches reap the benefit of things like public parks and libraries just as much as, say, factories that help support them with their taxes.

 

[Enoch07]

I agree with you on most of that last post 9-10ths. I cannot even begin to figure out how we could correctly do it. I leave that stuff to more intelligent people. All I can do is point out the corruption when it is there, and hopefully people who know more than I can help to fix it.

 

[Imagist]

Yes it does. If churches are taxed that means the congregation itself is paying double taxes. They will demand more say in government policies, if they are taxed yet again as a church.

Let them demand. They still get one vote per person.

In fact, by not paying taxes they have more money to spend on lobbying, so taxing churches would DECREASE their voice (although I don't think this effect would be very significant).

If you don't believe it stop paying your taxes and see how much your opinion matters to the government. Money talks bull crap walks. The sad truth of the American way.

If I had a legal way to not have to pay taxes like churches do, I would still have one vote.

 

[Imagist]

Your catching on now. You obviously never worked for a government agency. Politics are everything. The more money you make = the more taxes you pay = the more special treatment you receive. Though if your making under $100,000 a year you virtually have no say regardless. But get up above that and the government will start to listening. If you tax churches you are talking millions of dollars of revenue. They will demand more special treatment, mark my words.

Yet try to get disability, unemployment, or SS benefits. If you never tried you have no idea the amount of bull you have to go through just to feed your family, when you are disabled etc. Yet the fat cats on wall street have to sell one of their ten houses it is hard times for them and they need a bailout!

Wait a second, you seem to not be reading the thing you are quoting at all. Are you mickiel?

 

[Imagist]

Did you not see how easy they got the bailouts? It was nothing compared to a disable person trying to prove they are disabled. I don't believe you worked for the government at all 9-10ths. Sorry.

Corporations getting bailouts is nothing like a disabled person, I agree. It is very much like a church, though.

 

[Imagist]

Ahh I see you was contracted by the government to build for them. You actually was not working behind the scenes with a democratically elected official, or your opinion would be different. Mayors/Governors are the most corrupt officials as proven with through history. There is not enough room on these forums to list every corrupt Mayor/Governor that has been caught doing taking buyouts, swaying zoning laws for special interest etc etc etc the list goes on.

Ah and I assume you are the president of the United States? That's the only way your claims could get more silly.

You might consider a church a separate entity, but where does the church get its money? From donations of its congregation. So yes if you tax the church you are taxing the congregation indirectly.

Where does a supermarket get it's money? From its customers. So by your argument, you are taxing the customers again indirectly.

 

[Imagist]

No if they paid taxes they would have a legal means to demand more say in policies.

How? Church people's votes get counted twice? Jesus comes out of heaven and becomes president? By what mechanism does this happen?

 

[Imagist]

It should not be legal, but it is. Everyone should have the same say regardless of their income, as long as they have a income. That is the way it is supposed to work, but in reality it is not.

So you are saying that the people with less income because of taxes get more say?