Should religious organizations pay taxes?

[Imagist]

I think Enoch does have a point. Do we really want them to pay taxes and then claim a stake of government funding if they ever need money? At first I thought, "well why not" but when you bring true economics into it, and you see that tax payers all get a say in where their taxes go, I feel less confident that I'd want the Church of any denomination to have a say in the matter.

Corporations are no different. Corporations have too much say in our laws; do you really think removing taxes from corporations would fix the problem?

There isn't a tax-to-votes correlation of any kind. Nontaxation of churches protects the church, not the state.

 

[Kilgore Trout]

Corporations are no different. Corporations have too much say in our laws; do you really think removing taxes from corporations would fix the problem?

There isn't a tax-to-votes correlation of any kind. Nontaxation of churches protects the church, not the state.

Yeah, I don't really understand the argument that taxed-churches would have more say in government. Paying taxes doesn't give you any more say in government, whether you're an individual or an institution.

 

[Enoch07]

Yeah, I don't really understand the argument that taxed-churches would have more say in government. Paying taxes doesn't give you any more say in government, whether you're an individual or an institution.

Yes it does. If churches are taxed that means the congregation itself is paying double taxes. They will demand more say in government policies, if they are taxed yet again as a church. If you don't believe it stop paying your taxes and see how much your opinion matters to the government. Money talks bull crap walks. The sad truth of the American way.

 

[Kilgore Trout]

Yes it does. If churches are taxed that means the congregation itself is paying double taxes. They will demand more say in government policies, if they are taxed yet again as a church. If you don't believe it stop paying your taxes and see how much your opinion matters to the government. Money talks bull crap walks. The sad truth of the American way.

So if I make double the salary that you do, and pay double the taxes, then I get twice the say in government?

You're simply not making any sense. How exactly could the congregation demand more say in government policies?

Are you an American?

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Yes it does. If churches are taxed that means the congregation itself is paying double taxes.

Why do you say that? How do you arrive at your "double" figure?

They will demand more say in government policies, if they are taxed yet again as a church.

How do you figure? IMO, there are two main classes of churches:

- those who demand as much political influence as they can.
- those who make it a rule to stay out of politics.

Neither of these groups will suddenly ramp up their demands for political influence because they're taxed, because the one group has already ramped up their demands as far as they'll go and the other doesn't make political demands at all.

If you don't believe it stop paying your taxes and see how much your opinion matters to the government.

Actually, I think if you stop paying your taxes, the government tends to pay much more attention to you.

 

[Enoch07]

So if I make double the salary that you do, and pay double the taxes, then I get twice the say in government?

You're simply not making any sense. How exactly could the congregation demand more say in government policies?

Are you an American?

Your catching on now. You obviously never worked for a government agency. Politics are everything. The more money you make = the more taxes you pay = the more special treatment you receive. Though if your making under $100,000 a year you virtually have no say regardless. But get up above that and the government will start to listening. If you tax churches you are talking millions of dollars of revenue. They will demand more special treatment, mark my words.

Yet try to get disability, unemployment, or SS benefits. If you never tried you have no idea the amount of bull you have to go through just to feed your family, when you are disabled etc. Yet the fat cats on wall street have to sell one of their ten houses it is hard times for them and they need a bailout!

 

[Enoch07]

Why do you say that? How do you arrive at your "double" figure?

Actually, I think if you stop paying your taxes, the government tends to pay much more attention to you.

Because the congregation already pays taxes on their paycheck, taxes on the land they own, cars, etc. Then if you tax the church they attend you are essentially taxing the same people twice.

Your right if you stop paying taxes they just lock you up and throw away the key, after they sell everything you own to pay for back taxes.

 

[Kilgore Trout]

Your catching on now. You obviously never worked for a government agency. Politics are everything. The more money you make = the more taxes you pay = the more special treatment you receive. Though if your making under $100,000 a year you virtually have no say regardless. But get up above that and the government will start to listening. If you tax churches you are talking millions of dollars of revenue. They will demand more special treatment, mark my words.

Yet try to get disability, unemployment, or SS benefits. If you never tried you have no idea the amount of bull you have to go through just to feed your family, when you are disabled etc. Yet the fat cats on wall street have to sell one of their ten houses it is hard times for them and they need a bailout!

You haven't answered my question - do you live in America? I don't think you understand how the system works.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Your catching on now. You obviously never worked for a government agency.

I have worked for government agencies ranging from the federal government down to local municipalities, and I've done plenty of consulting for government agencies. All of this has helped me to know that things don't actually work the way you suggest they do.

Yet try to get disability, unemployment, or SS benefits. If you never tried you have no idea the amount of bull you have to go through just to feed your family, when you are disabled etc. Yet the fat cats on wall street have to sell one of their ten houses it is hard times for them and they need a bailout!

Right - it's much easier to get unemployment or social security when you make a lot of money.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Because the congregation already pays taxes on their paycheck, taxes on the land they own, cars, etc. Then if you tax the church they attend you are essentially taxing the same people twice.

No more than when you tax the stores they shop at.

A church is a separate entity from the members of its congregation.

 

[Enoch07]

Did you not see how easy they got the bailouts? It was nothing compared to a disable person trying to prove they are disabled. I don't believe you worked for the government at all 9-10ths. Sorry.

 

[blackout]

I personally see no reason to help support another mort-gage (death-gauge)
when I am already subjugated to the 'interests' of the elige banking families once.
(my home)
I can hardly get from this :sarcastic first issue to the one of taxes.

I don't know why people don't meet in homes,
parks, backyards, whatever, library rooms open to the public.
Rent a hall once a week?
I guess it's all too complicated,
not "stable" enough.
The person with the ritual basement might leave the group and then where are you?
But still I like to think SIMPLE.

I AM Temple. YOU ARE Temple.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Did you not see how easy they got the bailouts? It was nothing compared to a disable person trying to prove they are disabled.

Yes, because it's two different things. You're comparing apples to oranges.

I don't believe you worked for the government at all 9-10ths. Sorry.

Sorry or not, I have.

When I did building plan review, we didn't expedite projects if people with money asked us to. When I did capital planning and budgeting for municipalities, projects were prioritized based on a number of factors, including existing pavement condition, forecast traffic volumes and how different projects related to each other... but not the average tax paid in the areas that the projects would serve. When I've been involved in highway route planning studies, the decision whether or not to expropriate someone's house for a highway were based on demonstrable need, not on the income of the homeowner.

Now that I'm mainly doing traffic impact studies for private clients, I know that getting a development project approved is based on a number of factors and criteria that are the same for everyone. In fact, a large corporation with deep pockets can often have a more difficult time than a smaller company if there's a lot of public opposition.

 

[Enoch07]

Ahh I see you was contracted by the government to build for them. You actually was not working behind the scenes with a democratically elected official, or your opinion would be different. Mayors/Governors are the most corrupt officials as proven with through history. There is not enough room on these forums to list every corrupt Mayor/Governor that has been caught doing taking buyouts, swaying zoning laws for special interest etc etc etc the list goes on.

You might consider a church a separate entity, but where does the church get its money? From donations of its congregation. So yes if you tax the church you are taxing the congregation indirectly.

 

[Kilgore Trout]

Mayors/Governors are the most corrupt officials as proven with through history. There is not enough room on these forums to list every corrupt Mayor/Governor that has been caught doing taking buyouts, swaying zoning laws for special interest etc etc etc the list goes on.

Bribes =/= taxes. If churches wanted more influence, then they could simply be buying officials now. If anything, if they paid more taxes, they'd have less for bribes. Your argument is completely nonsensical.

 

[Enoch07]

Bribes =/= taxes. If churches wanted more influence, then they could simply be buying officials now. If anything, if they paid more taxes, they'd have less for bribes. Your argument is completely nonsensical.

Because churches believe in honesty? I am sure a few churches have bribed officials. But any decent church would not stoop to such criminal activities.

 

[Kilgore Trout]

Because churches believe in honesty? I am sure a few churches have bribed officials. But any decent church would not stoop to such criminal activities.

But then if they paid more taxes, they wouldn't demand special treatment, because they would be dishonest as well.

 

[Enoch07]

But then if they paid more taxes, they wouldn't demand special treatment, because they would be dishonest as well.

No if they paid taxes they would have a legal means to demand more say in policies.

 

[Kilgore Trout]

No if they paid taxes they would have a legal means to demand more say in policies.

So, in the US, the more money you pay in taxes, the more influence you have in government? By what legal process does this work exactly?

 

[Enoch07]

It should not be legal, but it is. Everyone should have the same say regardless of their income, as long as they have a income. That is the way it is supposed to work, but in reality it is not.