Should same sex marriage be legal?

[Martin]

Absolutely. I'm mostly straight (it depends) but in any case I don't see how how sexuality is relevant to legal partnerships.

 

[It Aint Necessarily So]

So because it is God who has yoked a man and a woman together in marriage

Not this marriage. My wife and I yoked ourselves together with no help or permission from any god.

Yes, a justice-of-the-peace made it a legal contract, but it would still be a marriage even without that. No gods involved, Marriage is not a religious matter. It's not needed, and its values are irrelevant except to people who choose to make them relevant.

For those who don't care what God thinks....you have every right to exercise your free will.

No thanks to the Christian church, which fought the possibility of loving same-sex couples enjoying the social, financial and legal benefits of marriage

For those who do care what God ordained for marriage the options are limited to "one man, one woman".

And your church would impose that on everybody if it had the chance. All of this talk of do what you prefer, this is what I choose, is not the church's position, but it's the one some Christians have begun taking in public to avoid appearing homophobic and theocratic - big turn offs for many observing the church..

 

[Darkforbid]

No

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

I say yes. I am bisexual, and see no reason to say otherwise.

Definitely. Any two adults of any gender should be allowed to legally marry. I draw the line at two adults, though. I support monogamy.

 

[julianalexander745]

Nobody knows what God thinks.

Some people do:

 

[columbus]

Some people do:

I once watched a debate between Fred Phelps and a liberal Christian.
Topic:
"God hates some people"

Phelps took the affirmative. And wiped the floor with that guy. He had Scripture about everything he said.
God hates me, and anybody who reads the Bible knows it.
Tom

 

[Shad]

I say yes. I am bisexual, and see no reason to say otherwise.

Yes it should be legal if not already in nation-states.

 

[dybmh]

Edit: Nevermind... My question was answered several pages back...

Thank you @Brickjectivity

 

[Deeje]

Not this marriage. My wife and I yoked ourselves together with no help or permission from any god.

Yes, a justice-of-the-peace made it a legal contract, but it would still be a marriage even without that. No gods involved, Marriage is not a religious matter. It's not needed, and its values are irrelevant except to people who choose to make them relevant.

You just confirmed what I have already said. Your marriage is legal, in God’s eyes as well as the law’s. Just because you don't recognize marriage as God's arrangement, doesn't mean that that it isn't. God performed the first marriage in Eden. You can believe that or not....

As an institution of his own making, he gets to set the rules....you can argue with that if you like, but it won't do any good.

No thanks to the Christian church, which fought the possibility of loving same-sex couples enjoying the social, financial and legal benefits of marriage

Since Jesus never mixed religion with politics, I can assure you that the "Christian Church" of which you speak has nothing to do with Jesus. You have to obey him in order to call yourself a genuine Christian. He teaches us to be "no part of this world". His commands do not apply to unbelievers unless they want them to....they are only incumbent on his disciples.

We don't lobby governments to enforce rules that only apply to us. We allow the rulers of this world to make their own decisions. Its got nothing to do with us. The only time we will "appeal to Caesar" is if an injustice has taken place against a brother. (as occurred in the first century)

And your church would impose that on everybody if it had the chance. All of this talk of do what you prefer, this is what I choose, is not the church's position, but it's the one some Christians have begun taking in public to avoid appearing homophobic and theocratic - big turn offs for many observing the church..

As I said, God gives us the choice to obey him or not. It has to be our decision. God does not impose anything on anyone.....but there are consequences for all decisions.....some good and some bad. If we make the decision we have to cop those consequences whether we like it or not...we reap what we sow.....when is that not true?

 

[Subduction Zone]

Absolutely not! The Bible says . . . Oh wait. I am an atheist. Sure why not? If two people love each other why shouldn't they be able to get married?

 

[Cooky]

Why not? Are you asking secular society to respect religious sensibilities when the church is so obviously disinterested in respecting secular society's values? The church steadfastly opposed the advent of same-sex marriage - an example of it trying to impose its will and values on others who have no interest in what the church and its adherents believe - yet now it wants its values respected.

In a related matter, my wife and I, American expats, have lived in the same Mexican village for ten years, which features a large Catholic church. Today is the last day of a nine-day religious celebration (called a novenario) of the local saint, St. Andrés, in which every day, all-day and into the night, bottles rockets are being fired off as marching brass bands go up and down the streets.

This terrifies children and pets, including my two dogs (I just heard an explosion) that has one of my dogs under the bed in hiding, the other trembling and panting,unable to stop pacing and running. We have to keep the doors closed for nine days to mute the explosions and bands. Our black lab is afraid to go outside to relieve herself, and frequently gets a bladder infection from holding her urine too long. I just took her breakfast to her under the bed. She's too nervous to eat.

I suppose the church expects us to respect it, but the opposite is true. We consider it a terrible neighbor, selfishly making its noises - originally to scare off evil spirits and demons..

Sure, we're outsiders, and have to suffer this in silence. We would be told that if we don't like it, too bad, and that is correct.

But what should we think about this religion and its superstitions? It's the same situation - they would expect to be accepted if not respected even as they terrorize our pets. A friend of ours with the same problem tells us that he curses the virgin every time that church molests his household's peace and tranquility. I feel the same. We love most of Mexico, its people, and most of its culture, but not the church. The only impact this church has on our lives is this to degrade it. It does nothing for the community.

• "Fiestas de San Andrés - At a Glance - Ajijic’s patron saint is Saint Andrew & every November, the townspeople honor him with a novenario: 9 days of daily processions, music & fireworks. Lots of fireworks." https://lakesideguide.mx/fiestas-san-andres/

This would be a nice festival if it were confined to the plaza rather than marching up and down our streets making children cry and pets tremble and hide. If there were only the castillos (see link and embedded video if interested), we could support this holiday just for its cultural value as we do the non-noisy holidays such a Mexican Christmas, a different holiday here than in the states, one in which children reenact the wandering of Joseph and Mary, far from home, looking for shelter for her baby to be born. The "manger" is often across the street from us, and we turn out on the streets to see the kids knock there and finally be received, along with Magi and "camels" (burros stand in for them)

But under the circumstances, we merely endure this. We did disappear to another village about 45 minutes away one year, but it was incredibly inconvenient and disruptive to our routine, not to mention that this other village didn't occupy our interest for nine days. We were simply killing time waiting for the holiday to end in a hotel room in a community in which we knew nobody, one we have only visited two other times, each for a half-day of a meal and shopping and wandering about before returning home.

Incidentally, the local government is trying to rein in this noise offensive, inasmuch as the net economic impact of this holiday is to cost the community whatever the fifty percent or so of the local expats - a community of several thousand - who disappear for a week-and-a-half to some other location and spend their money there cost the local vendors and tax treasury - yet another burden imposed by this church on its community.

This is a recurring theme across all forms of Christianity - please respect our beliefs even as we call yours sinful. Please respect our religious freedom to not have to bake wedding cakes or perform marriage services for these people even as we labor incessantly to remove that right to same-sex marriage.

Can you see why many simply have no further interest in what the religious demand for themselves? I just don't care if religious bakers are forced to choose between closing their shops, losing lawsuits, or serving people of whom they disapprove. After all , we are forced to either endure them here or flee to a quieter place that will accept our dogs every year because of a church that doesn't respect anything but its own wishes.

Why you would choose a place like Mexico to live as your prime residence, is beyond me. Besides, what you're experiencing there is a cultural thing, that no other church does anywhere. Also, I've never personally interrupted any gay relationship, or refused to bake anyone a cake, yet I get blamed for it, and now me and my kids have to pay the price for it.

 

[Cooky]

Why would a gay couple want to get married by a church that has no love or respect for them, anyway?

For revenge. Just like suing a small time baker for millions of dollars, to ruin his life over a cake.

 

[Father Heathen]

Why you would choose a place like Mexico to live as your prime residence, is beyond me.

If they've lived there for 10 years, then they probably know the country a bit better than you do.

Besides, what you're experiencing there is a cultural thing, that no other church does anywhere. Also, I've never personally interrupted any gay relationship, or refused to bake anyone a cake, yet I get blamed for it, and now me and my kids have to pay the price for it.

What price would that be?

 

[ImmortalFlame]

Why you would choose a place like Mexico to live as your prime residence, is beyond me. Besides, what you're experiencing there is a cultural thing, that no other church does anywhere. Also, I've never personally interrupted any gay relationship, or refused to bake anyone a cake, yet I get blamed for it, and now me and my kids have to pay the price for it.

What price are you paying, exactly?

 

[Skreeper]

For revenge. Just like suing a small time baker for millions of dollars, to ruin his life over a cake.

Which can be avoided by...you know... selling cakes to gay people?

 

[Cooky]

What price are you paying, exactly?

If they've lived there for 10 years, then they probably know the country a bit better than you do.
What price would that be?

Forcing my kids to get married twice, once at the church and agian at the courthouse.

 

[ImmortalFlame]

Forcing my kids to get married twice, once at the church and agian at the courthouse.

Is that something they are being forced to do?

 

[ImmortalFlame]

Which can be avoided by...you know... selling cakes to gay people?

It's a funny definition of "revenge", really, isn't it?

And I suppose a murderer being sent to prison is the victim's family getting "revenge" too, rather than... Y'know... The murderer being punished by the law for the committing an illegal act?

 

[It Aint Necessarily So]

Why you would choose a place like Mexico to live as your prime residence, is beyond me.

That's undoubtedly because you are unfamiliar with where I live. It is a beautiful place a mile up in the Sierra Nevadas on a mountain lake. Our community is vibrant, the people happy, the weather unbeatable, and the prices much lower than what you are used to. We don't have white supremacists, mass shootings, or the extreme weather we left behind. This second picture is the malecon, or boardwalk that we walk to and down for our morning walk as the sun comes up over the lake as you are seeing here.

what you're experiencing there is a cultural thing, that no other church does anywhere.

That's untrue. This goes on throughout Mexico and possibly much or all of Latin America.

But even if it were a one-off, so what? This church is still a selfish and undesirable neighbor, which is typical of what I see from organized religion - an utter indifference to who is adversely affected by it, whether that be the terror it causes so many children and pets here, or taking away same sex marriage rights and safe, legal abortion where you are.

My point is that many people, including me, would have a better life if religion simply disappeared. It offers us nothing of value, and is indifferent to the needs and wants of people outside of its religion, not to mention promoting bigotry toward atheists and homosexuals, and anti-intellectualism. This is Christianity's legacy

Also, I've never personally interrupted any gay relationship, or refused to bake anyone a cake, yet I get blamed for it

Whose blaming you? I haven't. I blame the church and organized religion (more on that below).

But you do bear the stigma of your religion whenever you share your beliefs with outsiders. We have a much different view of Christianity than I did, for example, from the inside several decades ago. Nobody in church is going to tell you the things I have. Take it for what its worth.

You might not be a homophobe or atheophobe yourself, but as a Christian, you are tacitly endorsing such attitudes, since they characterize the church as we see it in the news.

I told something similar to a woman who likes to show the Confederate flag, but resents being lumped in with the racists, white supremacists, Klan, and lynching mobs, which she says does not represent her. Well, if you bear the standard of those who made that symbol mean what it does to outsiders, you're going to be associated with them. I don't know you to be homophobic, but that's only because I've read many of your words. If we simply met over lunch for the first time and you were wearing a cross, I would assume that there a great chance that you held those views.

Christians frequently complain that they are unfairly persecuted - disliked for no good reason other than that the ones disliking them are in league with Satan to destroy a good institution. There are excellent reasons for those attitudes, but I don't expect insiders to be willing to see the blame this church deserves and the good reasons that so many others have to want to see its influence fade. I think homophobia would eventually disappear in the West if Christianity stopped teaching that homosexuals are an abomination in the eyes of a good and loving god.

Do you know what your Bible teaches about atheists? We are all lying, corrupt, vile, wicked, abominable, decadent, debauched, godless vessels of darkness in the service of evil, not one of whom does any good, fit to be shunned and to be burned alive forever as enemies of a good god, and the moral equivalent of murderers and whoremongers. Don't believe me? Here's where:

[1] "The fool says in his heart,'There is no God.' They are corrupt, their deeds are vile; there is no one who does good" - Psalm 14:1

[2] "But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone, and all and the enemy of a good god." - Revelation 21:8

[3]"Do not be yoked together with unbelievers. For what do righteousness and wickedness have in common? Or what fellowship can light have with darkness?"- 2 Corinthians 6:14

[4] Who is the liar? It is the man who denies that Jesus is the Christ." - 1 John 2:22

[5] "Whoever is not with me is against me" - Luke 11:23

[6] “Anyone who does not provide for their relatives, and especially for their own household, has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever.” - 1 Timothy 5:8

[7] "They are puzzled that you do not continue running with them in the same decadent course of debauchery, so they speak abusively of you" – 1 Peter 4:4

The fact that the church teaches this to as many people as will accept that judgment is my primary reason for being anti-theist. Why would any atheist accept that kind of slanderous hate speech without objection and resentment? Nobody else would (substitute Jew, black, or gay for unbeliever and there would be a massive outcry, but apparently, to much of the world, it's still OK to describe unbelievers that way).

Why wouldn't we all like to see this institution disappear? That's why so many have so much negative to say about this religion that purports to be a religion of love.

You seem like a nice guy, and I wouldn't be surprised if you have rejected this teaching. If so, good for you, but that doesn't matter. I still object to the institution that promulgates such language. It doesn't matter if 10% or 90% of Christians are atheophobic bigots, the church still has to go. And all that antipathy you experience as a Christian is due to people like me pushing back. That's why I post as I do - as I did here. I hope that if you were previously unaware of what effect the Christian church has on outsiders, what they see, and why they justly object to and are have a negative view of this religion, then now you will understand where that comes from.

This is not a condemnation of you or any other Christian, but of Christianity and the church that promulgates it.

now me and my kids have to pay the price for it.

What price are you paying, exactly?

Forcing my kids to get married twice, once at the church and agian at the courthouse.

Your kids can do either of those, neither, or both, depending on what they want. If they want a legal marriage, they'll need to deal with the government. If they want a church wedding only, they don't.

 

[Shad]

Absolutely. I'm mostly straight (it depends) but in any case I don't see how how sexuality is relevant to legal partnerships.

Depends on what nation you are talking about. Marriage in many US states was about family and children thus were only applicable to heterosexual couples. Obviously these are outdated ideas, even at the time, as children are not dependent on a marriage.